Ellison's Error, Frank's Fantasy
I Jefferson owned a Koran: He therefore read it, and studied it, and its precepts colored his beliefs and our Constitution as well.
II Bush is a genocidal maniac: By means of inaction he is guilty of ethnic cleansing.
Perhaps not complete idiots, these two mental giants, but certainly sadly deluded.
----
Ellison
Frank
Sorry congressman, I own a Koran. I've read it, and there is nothing within its covers that could remotely inspire the Constitution. Furthermore, owning a book does not necessarily imply it has been read by its owner. But consider the time in which Jefferson lived. Was there an English translation of the Koran at that time? Is Jefferson's Koran in English? If not, did Jefferson read and speak arabic? Well enough to earnestly study it?
Just an observation here congressman, but some people own things merely for their oddity. I certainly do. And I suspect you do as well. Your argument is knee deep in fragrant pastures of bovine squeezings.
II Bush is a genocidal maniac: By means of inaction he is guilty of ethnic cleansing.
How many billions have poured into New Orleans from the federal coffers? Oh, Frank's spokesman says Frank didn't mean genocide, but what is 'ethnic cleansing' if not genocide? Oh! It's rhetoric! Why didn't you say so! What we have here then is partisan idiocy from a so-called unfettered mind... An intellectual. Typical from a party so thoroughly and morally bankrupt. Just look at all the corruption the Democratic Party refuses to purge from its own ranks! Leahy! Jefferson! Reid! Schumer! Kennedy! To name just a few.
But why stop at genocide, Mr. Frank? If I'm not mistaken Bush used to sell coke to support his own habit. Bush can't even give a speech without first trimming three sheets to the wind! What else? Oh, that's right! He blew up the levees during Katrina! He knew 9-11 was going to happen 3 weeks after he stole the 2000 election. His grades at Yale were so piss-poor they were better than Kerry's! He was AWOL while in the guard! Want proof? Just ask Dan, he's got some documents that prove... something!
Perhaps not complete idiots, these two mental giants, but certainly sadly deluded.
----
Ellison
Frank
from the mind of... Eric | 12:25 AM
34 Comments:
Doesn't Barney Frank know that more whites were adversely affected by Hurricane Katrina than Blacks? And why is he still repeating the same old tired lies? Is he living in the past?
Hey, EL, I have discovered a blogger who makes you look moderate. But, I'm pretty sure she got so riled at me that she actually blasphemed. Check her out.
http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/
I checked out the blog, but I fail to see why she is MORE conservative than I am.
Well, she's meaner, I mean. And, she actually called the church I attend -- which is a mainline church -- a "Church of Satan," based on some false assumptions.
Not that I equate "conservative" with "mean." Hee hee.
"And, she actually called the church I attend -- which is a mainline church -- a "Church of Satan..."
LOL!...umm...no comment...
Hey EL!..."Dan" who?
(sheepish grin)
Skipping merrily about the Blogosphere doing the work of Jesus as usual, huh, ER?
You must be very proud!
You got someone else to sink to your level...
Congratulations!
Have you asked her whether or not she believes the Bible yet?
Don't pay her any attention, ER.
She probably doesn't even go to church...
And if she does, it is probably one of those backward, out-dated, right-leaning, red-state, fire-and-brimstone churches that preaches repentance of sin and the shunning of Satan and his followers, rather than inclusion, peace and love, and sinning all the more so that Grace may abound.
Not ALL "so-called" Christians are in the Twenty-First Century like you...
You should go back over there and tell her that her prayers are apreciated!
That should make her see the light...
'Scuse me!!
I meant to say "Appreciated".
I know what a stickler ER is about typos...
Here's my other cheek, Tug. Take a swipe at it, too.
Jesus loves ya, buddy, and I do, too.
Oh, Amy is so cocksure about *everything* she makes y'all look like doubters!
Oh, and Amy is what they used to call a "papist," believe it or not. Dyed-in-the-wool Catholic.
BTW, if any of y'all find anything on the Web page of the church I belong to that says anything about homosexual sex, let me know. 'Cause that would be something I might be concerend about. Hetero sex, too. So, lemme know.
Well, according to you, ER. there aparently is no such thing as "Homosexual Sex"...
Homosexuality is a "State of Being", not an "act"...
Or have I misunderstood you?
And as far as the "other cheek" comment...
Pull your pants back up. No one here wants to see that.
I meant it just the way the Scripture means it: The cheek on my face.
You struck me without provocation. Do it again. Seriously. You know you want to.
It is *amazing* the way Body of Christ works!
You strike me on the face, and show your own ass! Amazing. It's like spiritual Twister around here.
:-)
I did not strike you without provocation, ER.
You attack everything I believe in every time you use your keyboard.
I call you on your B.S. (and not just all the B.S. after your name.)
You know better than this!
Don't try to play the poor innocent Martyr here...
We all know you.
You were advertizing the fact that you had found another "Righty" at another Blog that you attacked, and you seemed to find some satisfaction in the idea that you had caused her to commit what you regard to be Sin. (Disagreeing with you, and attacking the Heretical philosophies of your indoctrination center...er..., church.)
If you caused another to sin, then shame on you! That is nothing to gloat about!
If I attack you, it is NEVER without provocation, my friend.
I expect excellence from you.
You are capable of much more than you have shown here today!...
Or have I given you too much credit all along?
Tug, bless you. You're just like your president. You attack first, then try to explain yourself. Don't bother. You don't like me, fine. You think my church is evil, well, you're entitled. You're wrong, but hey, it is, more or less, a free country,m despite your president's best intentions.
Thanks for putting up the thing about Mama ER. She had a stroke the other night. Back to square one -- behind it, actually.
I wonder: Why is it, and I am not making this up, why is it that I have gotten more kind words, thoughts, well-wishes and even prayers, from professed atheists, leftists and out-and-out infidels than I have from people who I believe -- based on their professions -- are Christians?
Why is that?
Don't answer. Just think.
Oh, the reason I brougth it up is that I thought I might get an amen, actually -- truthfully -- by pointing out the clear blasphemy: She attributed the work of God to Satan.
And I couldn't even get an amen from *that* here.
My best wishes go out to you and to your Mom, ER.
Prayers as well.
But forgive me for reminding you that you have not exactly gone out of your way to make friends among those of us who are Christians, in the traditional sense of the word.
You spend most of your time on Conservative Blogs explaining to all of us how we all have it all wrong, and arguing with us about such ridiculous topics as whether or not the Bible is the true Word of God, or whether or not the Murder of the Unborn or Homosexuality is Sin.
And when we back you into corners, you retort with some innane comment about how much education we have, or whether or not we go to church.
Or you attack the President. (See above.)
I DO like you, ER, but you sometimes say childish, dumb things.
And you go all over the Blogosphere preaching to EVERYONE about the stuff they teach you in your church, and accuse anyone who opposes you of unchristian behaviour, when as far as I can tell, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
So, SMACK.
Now you are out of cheeks.
Whine some more now about how unbelievers love you more than we "Christians" do.
Birds of a feather flock together.
"Why is it, and I am not making this up, why is it that I have gotten more kind words, thoughts, well-wishes and even prayers, from professed atheists, leftists and out-and-out infidels"
And why would you think those prayers would avail anything? Would you not RATHER have the prayers of genuine Christians? Whose prayers availeth much? And these atheists and leftists... Do they actually pray? Leftists may, but Atheists? To whom would they pray? Having denied God's very existence why would He listen?
"To whom would they pray? "
I'm probably the closest thing to an aetheist to post comments here so I feel I should address this comment.
"Whose prayers availeth much?" Do Christians get positive results every time? Can you guarantee my lottery ticket? No of course not. Prayers from anyone have at best a placebo's chance of helping others.
So why should the prayers of a christian weigh more than a muslim, hindi, shinto, bhuddist, confusian, zoroarastrain, anarchist or environmetalist.
Are the prayers of one brand of christianity better than others in your opinion? Is a candle in a cathedral better than words from a snake handler in tennessee?
Or maybe the only TRUE prayers come from christians that believe like you do. Hmmm?
And being an atheitst you are wholly unqualified to discuss the nature or efficacy of prayer.
EL, why? Because He made them, and He loves them. And such prayers come with NO baggage -- no preconceived ideas, and no HOPE. Yet they pray. I'm learning more every day why Jesus hung out with the desperate, not the religious.
Tug, keep your prayers for my mother to yourself. She deserves better. I say that in admitted bitterness, which I confess to God and you and any other brothers and sisters here now. And don't flatter yourself: You've never come close to backing me into a corner.
Now, Tug, I've confessed my sin. You have made me bitter.
Here is a soft word: I love you. I really do, despite my own anger. Proverbs.
You've tested me, and I've failed.
This is your test. Turn yourself and the wrath you have against me away. Now. Or prove my point: The Bible is is a book of goals and hopes -- not one of absolutes.
In the name of Jesus, I dare you.
Away! Silence!
EL said:
"And being an atheitst you are wholly unqualified to discuss the nature or efficacy of prayer."
Ben, I would just like to apologize for the actions of some of us religious types. We tend to get pretty sure we're right all the time and that leads to us saying some pretty damned stupid stuff.
I know because I am the chief of sinners in this regards. As for myself, who admittedly knows nothing of import about the nature or efficacy of prayers, I appreciate your comments and thoughts.
I hope that it would offend you none, Ben, if I said I see that of God in you.
I will pray for whomever I like, ER.
Jesus did indeed hang out with sinners, but he also urged them to turn from their sin, and repent, so that they could avoid God's wrath.
You hang out with them because they agree with your politics, and they with yours.
And they hang out with you because you refuse to take any kind of stand against any evil in the World, save the evil Republican Right wingers, and conventional Christians who insist that one must turn away from sin in order to serve God.
Don't blame your bitterness on me...
It is not ME who is testing you.
EL, are you okay? You seem to be seeing an awful lot of anger in what I and ER and Ben have said when we have been the ones attacked here for the most part.
I intend no attack nor disrespect when I ask questions or make comments (usually) and don't usually see any attacks nor disrespect in ER's or Ben's either, but there sure seems to be a lot of vitriol in return. Is that my imagination?
You said we needed to be "agreeable" and went so far to ask us to stop the "acrimony" and I don't see anything that even comes close to sounding acrimonious on our part (or were you addressing that to your comrades?).
You okay?
Dan has appreciation for Ben's comments, yes, but what of concern for his soul? Have you once told Ben what he'll face if he dies without Christ? I don't recall seeing any such concern from you, here...
But let's answer Ben's comments:
"Prayers from anyone have at best a placebo's chance of helping others."
While appreciating Ben's comments do you have nothing to say to this... Christian? Why do you remain silent, choosing instead to apologize for the angry Christians? This was, after all, the very statement that prompted my terse, angry reply.
"why should the prayers of a christian weigh more than a muslim, hindi, shinto, bhuddist, confusian, zoroarastrain..." [Let's leave out the anarchists and environmentalists since these are not religions, per se, in that their followers do not offer prayers to any diety specific to their "religion"]
Answer? Because there is only one God, and neither Muslims, Hindus, Shintoists, Bhuddists, Confucius-ians, or Zororastrians worship Him. And for the simple reason that God is not the author of confusion-- none of the afore-mentioned religions see God in the same light... Or at all!
"Are the prayers of one brand of christianity better than others in your opinion?"
I guess that depends of which denominations one considers 'Christian', for there are quite a few that are not. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, specifically, are NOT Christians. If it's truly 'Brands' of Christianity you mean, then yes, the prayers of one brand CAN be better than others. But in terms of the True Church, an honest heart-felt prayer from one such Christian is as good as anothers.
Also, lighting a candle is not a prayer... Actually speaking one's heart to God is a prayer. And if that snake handler from Tennessee is a genuine Christian, then yes, his prayer is better than a mere lit candle [assuming an actual prayer did not accompany the lit candle]. And yes, God is quite capable of fixing lotto tickets. Will he fix yours if I pray for it? Anything is possible with God.
God hears everything. Sees everything. Knows everything. Is in the midst of everything. He is aware of the prayers of the unrighteous; He knows what they've asked for. But,
"If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me" --Psalm 66:18
Simply put, I have to be in right fellowship with God before He will hear me. His spirit will speak to the Christians heart,
"Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift." In other words, Sin-- Iniquity --hinders our fellowship, every bit as much as this thread of comments has hindered mine.
Before I would ever offer a request to the Lord that you or anyone else be blessed I'd deal with my own sin first.
Does anyone here understand what a great privilege prayer is for those who believe and trust in God? The Christian has a direct line to the Maker of the universe, with no annoying secretary to tell you He's too busy to listen. But while's He's listening He'll deal with your own shortcomings before he does anything else. We may be righteous in his eyes [through the shed blood of Christ alone], but we still inhabit sinful flesh. As His spirit so often reminds us.
The unsaved do not have this privilege; God will direct such people to a place or person or event where they can address their lost state... first leave your offering at the altar and seek out God, whom you've offended, and ask forgiveness... then come back and make your offering. That's not to say God doesn't answer the earnest prayers of the wicked. He most certainly does. But the unsaved do not have that direct line of communication.
Now, I don't expect Ben to listen to me on matters of God, Repentance, Salvation, etc; I've already ruined my testimony there. But you, Dan, where is your concern? Instead of bending over backward to correct your poor confused brethren, why is it I can now only think of one instance wherein you championed the truth I've tried to relate regarding unbelief? And specifically now with Ben's unbelief?
As you recently admonished me...
"Shame on you, Dan. Shame!"
Your arguments don't hold water.
"Have you once told Ben what he'll face if he dies without Christ?..." Threats won't buy my love EL. I grew up a southern baptist, I've heard all about hell. I've seen SAW and SAW II. In fact it was the threat of ETERNAL torture that caused me to examine christianity the first time. I mean even the world's most cruel bloodthirsty and sadistic bastards don't deserve eternal, never ending, until the sun burns out, torture. I can't reconcile that with claims as to the nature of God being righteousness or love.
"Because there is only one God, and neither..." This is an unfounded claim. On atheist and agnostic websites they satirize this by repeating "The is no deity but the great floating spaghetti monster." Amazingly neither statement can be proven true or untrue. If you have some personal spiritual connection with something you identify with in the christian faith GREAT! I certainly wouldn't want to shatter anyone's faith. To claim however that your own personal spiritual viewpoint is the only valid one is a form of amazing arrogance.
"If it's truly 'Brands' of Christianity you mean, then yes, the prayers of one brand CAN be better than others. But in terms of the True Church..." I wish you would do a post on the different brands of christianity, I certainly wouldn't want mormons praying for me if they're gonna cancel out the methodists. The christian God with his claim of omnipotence and omniscience seems to have left some awful vague instructions for his/her/it's followers. I mean do I use the Golden Rule? Or the Ten Commandments? The directions to the israelites in the Old Testament or just the words of JC? You'd think he/she/it would have seen this coming and could do something about it?
""If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me" --Psalm 66:18 This seems to directly contradict the statement before where you said "He is aware of the prayers of the unrighteous; He knows what they've asked for." . . . Or maybe this isn't meant to be thought of literally.
"Simply put, I have to be in right fellowship with God before He will hear me." So even though rastafarian prayers are definitely far down on god's "to do" list, christians might not be high man on the totem pole either.
So EL you've basically proved my point "Prayers from anyone have at best a placebo's chance of helping others." That's sort of how religions CYA when I don't keep winning the lottery week after week.
I don't mean to be picking on christianity, because the flying spaghetti monster hasn't done anything for me recently either.
Sanctimonious shmuckness...the leftist disease!
"Why do you remain silent, choosing instead to apologize for the angry Christians?"
Why? Because it seems that Ben gets it. We don't pray to God to "get" stuff. It's not like, "Okay, I'm good, I'm saved, so here's what I want, God..."
If we're praying to that sort of god, we're not praying to God at all, but to Santa Claus.
We pray, those of us who choose to pray, to commune with God, to talk wtih God, sometimes to lay our soul bare before God, sometimes to chastise and question God. This is prayer. It's not some genie's lamp.
"The Christian has a direct line to the Maker of the universe"
We ALL have a direct line. Prayer is not limited to Christians. God hearing prayer is not limited to Christians.
In fact, I suspect that the Bible tells us that the "religious" are some of the ones whose prayers God refuses to hear.
Isaiah says:
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
And what evil is God accusing them of that is keeping God from hearing their prayers? Isaiah continues:
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
This idea is repeated throughout the prophets of the OT. For example, in Amos 5, Amos 8, Lamentations 1, in Malachi, I believe. We hear it over and over again, God speaking to the religious: "Turn off your lamps, throw away your ceremonial feasts, I will hear nothing of your prayers. They are a stench to me! For I desire mercy, not sacrifice. Feed the widows, tend the orphans, take up the cause of the poor. THESE are the prayers I desire." (My summation of consistent passages throughout the Bible.)
It is hypocrisy - religious hypocrisy of God's people, more than anything else, that seems to turn God away from prayers. The pitiful tax collector (ie, "sinner," "unsaved") beating his chest in misery is heard while the "faithful" pharisee is ignored, Jesus points out.
Or so it seems to me.
Besides all of that, in terms of "evangelism," I just don't think you reach many people with the "good news" of "You're going to hell, pathetic sinner!"
Not that it's my job to reach Ben. Ben's life is his to live. He'll seek God his way or he won't. But the sort of "good news" offered by the fire-and-brimstoners isn't going to reach many except those (children for instance) who can be bullied or intimidated into heaven.
That's not the God I believe in. As I've stated, I believe in a God of Love. Not a Holy Terrorist.
Although, I think the flying spaghetti monster is pretty cool, too...
"We pray, those of us who choose to pray, to commune with God, to talk wtih God, sometimes to lay our soul bare before God, sometimes to chastise and question God. This is prayer. It's not some genie's lamp."
As I was saying...
Post a Comment
<< Home