Detour, Part 7 - Why God Felt the Need to Take on Mortal Flesh
I've thought long and hard for the better part of a month on this subject, and the best I've been able to come up with ["the best" meaning, what follows is the best explanation I've encountered. Better even than what I had originally planned] is a study on this very subject by Jack H, over at Forgotten Prophets. I know what I believe and why I believe it, and I could pull it all out of my head and present it here. but anything I could write would not match what Jack has written. However, I will say this...
Man is born with a seed of propensity [thanks to Adam, not Eve], that original seed of sin that embodies hatred, murder, envy, strife.... and a whole host of other evils. Every one of these sins finds its root in "Selfishness" -- The desire to have one's own will over that of God's.
It is this seed of propensity that required a sacrifice of unparalleled magnitude... a sacrifice only God could have made. Jack H offers a compelling look into the First Adam, and the necessity of God's redemptive plan. I won't belabour the point any further, he has labored for me. Please wander over to Jack's place for the why's and wherefore's.
Here is a taste of what you'll find there...
God is the author and finisher of our salvation. In fact, He's the author and finisher of all creation. We aren't old enough to have seen the beginning, and as far as our present bodies are concerned, we won't be around to see Him finish it.
But we will all see it finished-- After the final resurrection, in new bodies, and after the great white throne judgment. Those of us who have accepted God's sacrifice will praise Him, and Glorify His name when it is all finally finished. Far, far more will wish they had chosen differently while they yet lived. For them it will be too late.
This is why Christians try to win converts; not simply because God expects it of us, but also because we love our Lord God, His son Jesus, and by the power of His Holy Spirit, we earnestly desire to see God's house full. Even to the rafters.
But despite all our best efforts....
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." --Luke 13:28
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night..." --Revelation 14:11
So why did God feel it necessary to take on human flesh? To spare any willing to accept His gift the fate described in those two simple verses.
----
Next:
Interlude No. 3 - Love & Justice: The Hypothetical and the Reality
Previously:
Interlude No. 2
Detour, Part 6 - Types and Antitypes
Detour, Part 5 - Jesus of Nazareth and Statistical Improbabilities
In Preparation for Detour, Part 5 - Exhibit B
In Preparation for Detour, Part 5 - Exhibit A
Detour, Part 4 - Comparing Translations to Established Christian Doctrines
Interlude No.1
Detour, Part 3 - Manuscripts, Translations, and "Why the KJV?"
Detour, Part 2 - The Nature and Limits of God... and why this is important
Detour, Parenthetical - "What Will Shortly Follow"
Detour, Part 1 - "Preamble"
Warning: Detour Ahead
Man is born with a seed of propensity [thanks to Adam, not Eve], that original seed of sin that embodies hatred, murder, envy, strife.... and a whole host of other evils. Every one of these sins finds its root in "Selfishness" -- The desire to have one's own will over that of God's.
It is this seed of propensity that required a sacrifice of unparalleled magnitude... a sacrifice only God could have made. Jack H offers a compelling look into the First Adam, and the necessity of God's redemptive plan. I won't belabour the point any further, he has labored for me. Please wander over to Jack's place for the why's and wherefore's.
Here is a taste of what you'll find there...
Only Jesus could ever have made atonement, since only he is God, with infinite capacity to atone. One such righteous person, by laying down his life, could have made atonement for one sin of one fallen human, but that fallen person would still bear the damning guilt of his countless other sins. When we consider that everything not of faith is sin (Rom 14:3), that every sub-nanosecond fraction of every moment not of faith is sin, that all our righteousness is as filthy rags – then we remember that every individual's sin is orders of magnitude beyond any physical hope of atonement. No one death of any (or indeed every) mere creature however mighty can possibly ransom even a single man. But Jesus – no creature, but infinite God – died infinitely; his death was greater than all the contents of space and of time. In death, he was not infinitely annihilated, but utterly "forsaken"; God the Son separated from God the Father, and Son of Man from body of man.
God is the author and finisher of our salvation. In fact, He's the author and finisher of all creation. We aren't old enough to have seen the beginning, and as far as our present bodies are concerned, we won't be around to see Him finish it.
But we will all see it finished-- After the final resurrection, in new bodies, and after the great white throne judgment. Those of us who have accepted God's sacrifice will praise Him, and Glorify His name when it is all finally finished. Far, far more will wish they had chosen differently while they yet lived. For them it will be too late.
This is why Christians try to win converts; not simply because God expects it of us, but also because we love our Lord God, His son Jesus, and by the power of His Holy Spirit, we earnestly desire to see God's house full. Even to the rafters.
But despite all our best efforts....
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." --Luke 13:28
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night..." --Revelation 14:11
So why did God feel it necessary to take on human flesh? To spare any willing to accept His gift the fate described in those two simple verses.
----
Next:
Interlude No. 3 - Love & Justice: The Hypothetical and the Reality
Previously:
Interlude No. 2
Detour, Part 6 - Types and Antitypes
Detour, Part 5 - Jesus of Nazareth and Statistical Improbabilities
In Preparation for Detour, Part 5 - Exhibit B
In Preparation for Detour, Part 5 - Exhibit A
Detour, Part 4 - Comparing Translations to Established Christian Doctrines
Interlude No.1
Detour, Part 3 - Manuscripts, Translations, and "Why the KJV?"
Detour, Part 2 - The Nature and Limits of God... and why this is important
Detour, Parenthetical - "What Will Shortly Follow"
Detour, Part 1 - "Preamble"
Warning: Detour Ahead
from the mind of... Eric | 5:38 PM
14 Comments:
I would like to add a reason that God took on mortal flesh. In the book of Revelation, chapter 4 verse 11, He says, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." If He had left us to our own devices, He would not have been able to display His wonderful grace and mercy, and you and I would not be glorifying Him right now.
Amen. I had not considered this aspect of his first advent, the suffering Christ. Admittedly, my goal was to demonstrate the necessity of an eternally perfect sacrifice for sin.
Everything I tried to write fell short of what I felt this post and this subject needed. What I read at Jacks place out-performed my attempt by far.
Your point, though, is well taken. Without His sacrifice He would have been left to try again to obtain the praise of men he so richly and infinitely deserves.
[that last line is pure speculation, of course... the 'trying again' part]
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." --Luke 13:28
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night..." --Revelation 14:11
I'm sorry I can't reconcile these two verses with the Christian idea of a pure, loving, father. The two are incompatible.
I can wrap my mind around the idea of eternity, and the thought that any being, would pointlessly consign another self-aware entity to infinite pain . . . there is nothing pure or loving in such an action.
It's why he sent his son--as a sacrifice--to die a horrible death as our replacement--to have his Father's loving back turned on him--to save you, Ben.
It's not God who makes the decision to send people to Hell--those people make that choice themselves!
PS--Like my user-name?
No D.Dad. I'm not discusssing the grace intercession of Jesus.
I'm talking about an even more basic concept in Christianity. ie. God is a pure and loving being - who will eternally, infinitely, without change condemn someone who doesn't attest God is a pure and loving being. the entire concept doesn't work for me.
I think the Jesus: grace intercession story is what many Christians use to cover this gap. I'm interested in how Christians deal with this (to me insurmountable) inconsistency. EL may have addressed this issue in one of his previous detour posts, but I don't remember it.
PS--Like my user-name?
I forgot I wanted to say no. I have never seen you exhibiting fanatical devotion to Ozark. A better term might be al-Christa. Either way putting al- in front of something right now indicates fantaical support for that thing. I myself might be a al-Democracya.
Then you need to visit Exploring Izard County, we'll call it the mosque of D.Daddio Al-Ozarka!
"Then you need to visit Exploring Izard County, we'll call it the mosque of D.Daddio Al-Ozarka!"
I haven't seen you demonstrating such fanaticism here in this forum, so I still don't see the name being a good moniker. Also, since there is a town local to me and EL called Ozark, I assumed you were referencing that place.
Ben, you said that the Gospel "...doesn't work for me...". Did you know that nowhere in the entire Bible does God ever once say that you have to LIKE what He says? We're just to obey. After all, HE is God. We are not. It's His way. Not ours.
Now if you would, please answer this question:
Which God is more merciful:
#1. The God who throws us out in the world and lets us try to "earn" our way to heaven - never knowing for sure if we're being good enough, never knowing for sure if we'll miss hell until it's too late.
or
#2. The God Who gives us a handbook with the plan laid out for us - we don't have to "earn" our way to heaven and be good enough - He's already bought our ticket for us. We just have to give up our pride and admit that we are sinners and unholy, and that we aren't worthy to be in heaven with a holy and perfect God, and then ask Him to save us? And He does. He always does. He never turns anyone away that truly repents and asks Him to save them.
Which God is more merciful?
Ah, but the Bible isn't a handbook unless your referring to it in sort of an abstract--if you search long enough you can find anything way. even the people at Ikea would laugh at the idea of the bible being a book of directions.
Hell isn't a punishment-its a threat. What is the purpose of having the people in hell be eternally tormented? There's no chance of reprieve. It's pain simply so that those that get into heaven can llok down and feel superior. And those in hell can stare up and know they are less than god and his friends for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. Amen.
That's my point. That is no pure and loving father.
Ben T.
If you look at the Bible more as the evolution of humankinds's still-very-limited vision of Who God is, rather than a direct revelation of God to humankind, the different "faces" of God over time make more since, and Jesus fits perfectly. (Not to mention, it helps explain the genocide and other patent unfairness of so much of the Old Testament.)
It's not God who has changed from being judgmental to merciful to gracious. It's our own concept of God that has changed -- from fire-breathing tribal deity, to justice-oriented father figure, to loving creator.
And the things that connect an individual human to God have never changed: surrender, faith, seeking.
Obviously, one must let go of the totem of the "inerrant" Word of God that must be taken literally. The Bible *is* inspired, just not in the way fundamentalism insists.
So sayeth "the Reverend" Erudite Redneck.
Hi Ben,
I noticed you didn't answer my question. Is it that you didn't see the question, you don't have an answer (there are only two answers to this question) or that you are purposely avoiding answering it?
So, which God is more merciful?
Ms. Green. You begin with the preconception that the Christian God is pure, loving, and merciful. What I'm asking is, especially for those that believe that the bible is literally true, how can you read the stories of the violence and injustices in the bible and not doubt your assumption of God's purity love and mercy? As to your either/or scenario - I choose neither.
Ben, violence and injustice are not caused by God. They are caused by man's inherited sin nature. I know God's nature because He tells us in the Bible about Himself,and I believe the Bible because of an empty tomb. A man Who claims to be God Who can rise from death has got to be God. So if He said something, I'm going to believe it.Yes, God is loving and merciful and kind. But He's also judge. Eric made a very good point about that in his post about the murderer whose dad was the judge. I understand your questions and doubts because I was an agnostic for 40 years - so I've been where you are. But God has a way of drawing even the most stubborn and prideful of us to Him. When He starts drawing you, you'll know. You'll be uncomfortable and you won't like it at all. But you'll know. But until He's actually drawing you, none of this will make any sense to you.
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