Moving On.... Pat Robertson
The 700 Club is good for one reason, news from a Christian perspective, on a daily basis. As for Pat Robertson, I've taken him with a grain of salt these last 16 years. But this morning he managed to show his true colors.
I'm almost always suspicious when Media criticizes a "Christian" leader-- let's face it, asking the media to judge right or wrong in regard to Christianity or Christian leaders is like asking Jaundice to diagnose Male Pattern Baldness. For the most part, and I mean MOST, the media are poor judges of character, and even poorer judges of spiritual truth. That being said, while I thought some of Robertson's claims and statements to be more than a bit loopy, it wasn't 'til this morning that he nailed his coffin shut as far as I'm concerned.
So what did he say?
How many of you out there know that we are currently in the Great Tribulation? And how many of you know that the Pre-Trib Rapture is utterly false, a false doctrine if ever there was one? Those weren't his exact words, but that was certainly his statements intended meaning. His comments actually lended themselves to complete lack of belief in the Rapture altogether.
Some will disagree with my assessment, but this officially brands Pat Robertson, out in Left Field-- in my book at least.
I'm almost always suspicious when Media criticizes a "Christian" leader-- let's face it, asking the media to judge right or wrong in regard to Christianity or Christian leaders is like asking Jaundice to diagnose Male Pattern Baldness. For the most part, and I mean MOST, the media are poor judges of character, and even poorer judges of spiritual truth. That being said, while I thought some of Robertson's claims and statements to be more than a bit loopy, it wasn't 'til this morning that he nailed his coffin shut as far as I'm concerned.
So what did he say?
How many of you out there know that we are currently in the Great Tribulation? And how many of you know that the Pre-Trib Rapture is utterly false, a false doctrine if ever there was one? Those weren't his exact words, but that was certainly his statements intended meaning. His comments actually lended themselves to complete lack of belief in the Rapture altogether.
Some will disagree with my assessment, but this officially brands Pat Robertson, out in Left Field-- in my book at least.
from the mind of... Eric | 2:32 PM
15 Comments:
Robertson is a scumbag and a freak, IMHO.
Good Christians can disagree about the point at which the rapture occurs, but a close study and understanding of Scripture, plus reading the points of view of great men of God that I admire and trust has led me to believe without a shadow of a doubt in a pre-trib rapture. Robertson can hang around if he wants to, but when that trumpet sounds, I'm outa here!
Awful mean words, Brooke!
Ms. Green: Good Christians can disagree as to whether there even will be such a thing as a rapture. In the history of Christendom, it is a fairly new concept, and great swaths of Christianity have no concept of it.
"In the history of Christendom, it is a fairly new concept"
I forgot - you don't believe the Bible is the word of God. The "concept" as you call it, is indeed a very old one - dates back to the New Testament writers as a matter of fact. You are, of course, entitled to believe otherwise.
The concept of the Rapture dates to the beginning of Dispensationalism, a la the Rev. Darby. That's considerably sooner than when the N.T. was written. Dispensationalism is an incredibly elaborate doctrinal structure to be based on so little of the Bible.
"based on so little of the Bible"
You have obviously never studied dispensationalism. The word dispensationalism may indeed be a the product of Darby, but the idea of the rapture is inherent in scripture. And sorry, the concept of the Rapture is very 1st century. Forgive me if I choose not to be swayed by your obvious lack of historical knowledge in this regard... this era of history.
Many Christians disagree with the theory of the Rapture. It doesn't really mean they are bad Christians, EL. Just that they interpret the Scriptures a bit differently than you and I.
Pat can be an oddball, but he's not preaching a loony doctrine. Just a different one.
EL, I'll put my 27-year-old, well-worn Scofield Reference Bible up against anything ya got. I have studied dispensationalism. And I reject it as another feeble attempt to create and foster certainty when the faith does not require it, and in fact is more robust, without it. :-)
Funny that a "literal" reading of Scripture causes some believers to differ with EL et al. :-)
"Most Roman Catholics and many Protestants do not accept the concept of a pre-Tribulation rapture in which some are 'taken up into Heaven' before the end of the world, because as mentioned, it is claimed that this idea did not exist in the teachings of any Christians until the 1800s, so it cannot be said to belong to Apostolic Tradition. Instead, most Catholics and many Protestants interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 literally, and assert that the rapture will immediately follow the general resurrection on Judgment Day, when the living and the newly-resurrected-dead will rise up to meet Christ as he descends from heaven to judge the world (known as the Parousia). This is analogous to the common custom in which the people would go outside the gates of a kingdom to meet their returning king. Catholics and post-tribulation protestants consider the rapture to be merely a minor detail in the Biblical description of the Second Coming of Christ."
Personally, as with so much of what is so important to so many people, it just doesn't matter to me, and I got tired of playing the The-End-Times-Are-Imminent game in about 1983 when Hal Lindsay's influence on my adolescent self wore off. :-)
For someone who says "it just doesn't matter to me", you sure have a lot to say about it. :)
That's ok. When those of us who are raptured are gone, those that are left will reason it out as aliens or something and believe the lie.
It really should matter to you. Because when it happens, if you are still here...you are going to have to ask yourself some serious questions about salvation - and in the meantime, you'll be facing the wrath of God with no place to hide.
You really should care, ER.
Ms. Green, my point is this:
Whether I am raptured outta here, or I die tonight in my sleep, or Jesus splits the eastern sky in the morning and I meet him in the air, or whatever, none of that has much to do with the fact that I am saved through Christ by the grace of God.
I care inasmuch as this: Assertions of certainty by those who think they have it all figured out tend to cause divisions in the Body of Christ; silly fictional book series like "Left Behind" distract people from the reality of living life NOW, particularly striving to live a Christian life NOW; and they give unbelievers cause to think that all believers secretly, down deep, really *hope* that more people would get left than be taken and will watch with glee as the flesh melts from the bones of those caught in the tribulation.
I have a little to say about it because I, contrary to EL's assumption, DO know a little about it -- and I think it is more of a distraction than a help. :-)
Note that I'm not saying I don't believe in a rapture. The exact machinations of how we leave this realm and get to the next just don't matter to me. I oppose only this: any notion that, or anyone, *has* to believe in what really are contentious nuts and bolts and jots and tittles. :-)
"Two men walkiing up a hill, one is gone and one left standing still -- I wish we'd all been ready." That's scaring people to Jesus, and I think that's a cheap way to get people to the Cross, and once the fear subsides, so do most of the fearful. Were they actually saved in the first place? Probably not.
"That's scaring people to Jesus..."
...
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
--Jude 23
I hear you ER, but I do not think it a distraction. It is hope. "Look up, for your redemption draweth nigh.... Hope.
Since when has fear not been a legitimate motivator to bring sinners to the cross?
I WILL, however, retract my previously stated objections to Pat Robertson's post-trib view. He and I can agree to disagree... If only this was my only objection to Mr. Robertson.
He may not be the false prophet Mr. Hinn is, but even so...
Amazingly enough, ER, I also use a Scofield Reference Bible... KJV
Mine is dusty. I use another one now: "The HarperCollins Study Bible, New Revised Standard Version, with the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books."
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