Blogging the 'State of the Union'
8:03 -- Katie Couric says of Condoleeza Rice...
"And here's Secretary Rice glad-handing her way down the aisle..." Glad-handing! Sheesh!
8:07 -- Gloria Borger pictures Bush as desperate to get something done.
8:09 -- Couric: Bush is "Resolute yet resigned..."
8:10 -- Bush is introduced... "A kiss is no longer just a kiss" Couric reflects on the kiss Lieberman received last year from Bush. Many perceived it as the kiss of Death, and yet Lieberman is reelected.. Go figure.
8:11 -- Katie is rehashing her scripts from the 5 O'Clock news: Jefferson and the history behind State of the Union address.... "It's interesting that the Constitution requires the president to brief Congress on the State of the Union..
That's seemingly the best she can do.
8:13 -- Pelosi claims it's a distinct honor to introduce the President of the United States.
8:14 -- "Madam Speaker" I guess there's a first time for everything.
8:15 -- Bush makes note of two congressman not present and offers his prayers for their speedy recovery.
8:16 -- "We must have the will to face difficult challenges and determined enemies – and the wisdom to face them together."
You're right, and good luck on the togetherness part.
8:18 -- 41st month of uninterrupted job growth. "Unemployment is low, inflation is low, and wages are rising. This economy is on the move – and our job is to keep it that way, not with more government but with more enterprise."
I agree, and it surprises me to no end why so many people think this nation is doing so poorly in terms of our economicy. Greenspan retired and the markets didn't crash! Gas prices have dropped below $2 despite certain naysayers who claimed it not only wouldn't, but couldn't.
8:19 -- Balancing the budget gets Dems off their feet for a standing Ov...
8:20 -- "These [Earmarks] special interest items are often slipped into bills at the last hour – when not even C-SPAN is watching."
Good One!!! Attempt at levity, I didn't hear a chuckle...
"...cut the number and cost of earmarks at least in half by the end of this session,"
Gets hearty applause... I don't see this happening either.
[BLOGGER ISN'T PUBLISHING, BUT DOES SEEM TO BE SAVING MY PROGRESS...]
8:20 -- Private health care: Tax Deductions for folks who buy into their own medical insurance. Changing the tax code to make health care more affordable? Hmmm.
8:22 -- Still nothing on foreign policy. But let's pass medical liability reform? For the doctors? or for those who suffer because of phyician blunders? "Sorry! Was I supposed to amputate the right leg!??"
8:28 -- Securing our borders Segues into a guest worker program.
8:29 -- "We need to uphold the great tradition of the melting pot that welcomes and assimilates new arrivals"
How about assimilating immigrants who WANT to assimilate... who actually make an effort to learn the language.
8:30 -- Dependence on foreign oil. The way forward is through technology. Solar, Wind, Nuclear... Battery research for hybrids... bio-diesel fuels. [All good things] Grass, wood-chips, agricultural wastes...
Or as it is more affectionately known, Caca!
8:32 -- Mandatory fuel standards. Let's start by choosing 3 or 4 grades as the standard nationwide. Currently there are at least a dozen, primarily because each state has set it's own standards, and if the Oil Co's want any action in a given state they must produce fuels that meet or exceed that states standards....
8:33 -- Doubling the national strategic oil supply.
8:34 -- Moving on to justice and the court system. Please give my nominees an up or down vote in the Senate... Good luck on that one!
8:35 -- Now we get to terrorism: "We know with certainty that the horrors of that September morning were just a glimpse of what the terrorists intend for us – unless we stop them... Yet one question has surely been settled – that to win the war on terror we must take the fight to the enemy."
Not with Dems! But Standing Ov nonetheless...
8:36 -- "Our success in this war [since 9/11] is often measured by the things that did not happen..." It's hard to quantify such results: How many deaths were averted, how much infrastructure was saved. By averting attacks its impossible to know with any degree of certainty what and who, if any, were spared... but this hardly negates the point.
8:38 -- "America is still a Nation at war"
To the chagrin of many who haven't the stomach for a fight of any length beyond three years and 3,000+ deaths despite more horrific engagements inwhich we won.
8:39 -- Rubbing everyone's nose in the successful capture [albeit the capture of a dead body] of Abu Musab al Zarqawi.
8:40 -- Protecting the American people get's Princess Nancy out of her chair for a standing Ov... which I will hence for refer to as "StOve".
8:42 -- "Despite endless threats from the killers in their midst, nearly 12 million Iraqi citizens came out to vote in a show of hope and solidarity we should never forget."
Even in the face of success, the crybabies cried.
8:44 -- "A muslim house of prayer"... more like a meeting place for extremists to plan their next sortie
"THERE ARE [STILL] ERRORS" Of course there are! It's Blogger!!
8:46 -- 25,000 man surge. Pelosi looks distracted... certainly not clapping.
8:47 -- America's commitment is not 'open-ended'... Bench marks for Iraqis...
This surge has to show quick postitive results or this war is over; America will lose the will to continue to fight, and ultimately the war because of it.
8:48 -- "Terror is their greatest ally"... and their only weapon of Consequence. And the only weapon America has yet to learn to counter effectively.
8:50 -- "This is a generational struggle"... why can't America-- the Left specifically --seem to grasp that!!??
8:52 -- "Tonight I ask the Congress to authorize an increase in the size of our active Army and Marine Corps by 92,000 in the next five years."
Not at all what Dan wants to hear!
"A second task we can take on together is to design and establish a volunteer Civilian Reserve Corps. Such a corps would function much like our military reserve. It would ease the burden on the Armed Forces by allowing us to hire civilians with critical skills to serve on missions abroad when America needs them. And it would give people across America who do not wear the uniform a chance to serve in the defining struggle of our time."
This would be great. I'd sign up for this.
8:53 -- "Iran will not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons" How will we stop it with all these linguine-spined liberals crying over milk not-yet-spilt?
8:55 -- Moving on... AIDS funding. Funding to combat Malaria in Africa. Obligatory mentions, but something that needs doing.
8:56 -- Tepid applause on debt relief for other nations.
8:56 -- Introduces the first guest in the Gallery, sitting next to Laura Bush. Dikembe? Look it up later....
[Dikembe Mutombo-- an "over-coming poverty" success story. Impressive story.
8:58 -- Next up, Julie Aigner-Clark... Baby Einstein videos "Children have the right to live in a world that is safe" StOve for Ms. Aigner-Clark.
8:59 -- Next: Wesley Autrey: The Subway Savior. WOW!!!! This man is an incredible hero!!! Major, major, major StOve for this guy, and rightly so! throwing himself in front of and under a moving subway train to save a strangers life. That he survived is a miracle in and of itself!!! Kudo's indeed! How about a medal of freedom for this guy? Soldiers get Congressional Medal's of Honor such acts!
9:00 -- Next: Tommy Rieman: Awarded the Silver Star for an act of heroism in December of '03. Rieman... "was on a reconnaissance mission in Iraq when his team came under heavy enemy fire. From his Humvee, Sergeant Rieman returned fire – and used his body as a shield to protect his gunner. He was shot in the chest and arm, and received shrapnel wounds to his legs – yet he refused medical attention, and stayed in the fight. He helped to repel a second attack, firing grenades at the enemy's position. For his exceptional courage, Sergeant Rieman was awarded the Silver Star. And like so many other Americans who have volunteered to defend us, he has earned the respect and gratitude of our whole country."
IN CLOSING:
9:03 -- "In such courage and compassion, ladies and gentlemen, we see the spirit and character of America – and these qualities are not in short supply.
9:03 -- "...we can go forward with confidence-- because the State of our Union is strong... our cause in the world is right... and tonight that cause goes on."
It's a shame there're so many people out there who can't see anything good about America.
----
Now for the peanut gallery. I have to watch Katie & Krew here at the station, but I'm DVD-ing the whole thing on FOX. I'll watch their commentary later.
Can't wait to hear the Democratic Response.
DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE
Sen Jim Webb!!?? Isn't this the guy who was so beligerently rude to Bush at a White House Party?
9:15 -- Addressing Conflicts...
9:17 -- "The economy is great but it isn't equally shared." Reverting to the tried and true 'class-warfare' tactic! Way to go, Senator! What's yer plan to improve it? Income redistribution?
9:19 -- "Living conditions on Mainstreet" Nothing wrong with this, but... most of those you'll see on mainstreet are business owners... better to look at living conditions in housing projects, and the poorer quarters. Try solving poverty rather than the evil of owning a business and attempted to secure a future nest egg.
9:20 -- Now we get to see a picture of the Senator's father. A remembrance of the sacrifices his mother had to make. And references to his son in Iraq... so this IS the guy who was rude to the president at the White House.
9:22 -- "Took us into this war recklessly" Dude! War, by definition, IS reckless!
9:22 -- "We need a new direction" Fine, but how about providing one. Democrats have proven themselves decidedly barren of ideas. Oh, plenty of accusations and criticisms, yes! [Like Sen Webb's rude remarks to the President!] But few ideas
9:19 -- "When comes the end?" Dwight D. Eisenhower quote...
When we stop pussy-footing around and get the job done.
----
Well, it could have been worse-- Kennedy could have given the response! Or Kerry!!
Katie seems to think Sen Webb's opinion on the war is above reproach, because he served in the military [so did Bush], and so, currently, is his son. Above reproach, yet given a free pass on his rudeness and poor showing at a White House party.
Over-all, I'm particularly unimpressed by either speech. The tone of Bush's speech was of 'speaking from political defeat' and Webb's was 'Petulant, and generously iced with self-righteousness and smug superiority. Another poor showing by Senator Jim Webb.
"And here's Secretary Rice glad-handing her way down the aisle..." Glad-handing! Sheesh!
8:07 -- Gloria Borger pictures Bush as desperate to get something done.
8:09 -- Couric: Bush is "Resolute yet resigned..."
8:10 -- Bush is introduced... "A kiss is no longer just a kiss" Couric reflects on the kiss Lieberman received last year from Bush. Many perceived it as the kiss of Death, and yet Lieberman is reelected.. Go figure.
8:11 -- Katie is rehashing her scripts from the 5 O'Clock news: Jefferson and the history behind State of the Union address.... "It's interesting that the Constitution requires the president to brief Congress on the State of the Union..
That's seemingly the best she can do.
8:13 -- Pelosi claims it's a distinct honor to introduce the President of the United States.
8:14 -- "Madam Speaker" I guess there's a first time for everything.
8:15 -- Bush makes note of two congressman not present and offers his prayers for their speedy recovery.
8:16 -- "We must have the will to face difficult challenges and determined enemies – and the wisdom to face them together."
You're right, and good luck on the togetherness part.
8:18 -- 41st month of uninterrupted job growth. "Unemployment is low, inflation is low, and wages are rising. This economy is on the move – and our job is to keep it that way, not with more government but with more enterprise."
I agree, and it surprises me to no end why so many people think this nation is doing so poorly in terms of our economicy. Greenspan retired and the markets didn't crash! Gas prices have dropped below $2 despite certain naysayers who claimed it not only wouldn't, but couldn't.
8:19 -- Balancing the budget gets Dems off their feet for a standing Ov...
8:20 -- "These [Earmarks] special interest items are often slipped into bills at the last hour – when not even C-SPAN is watching."
Good One!!! Attempt at levity, I didn't hear a chuckle...
"...cut the number and cost of earmarks at least in half by the end of this session,"
Gets hearty applause... I don't see this happening either.
[BLOGGER ISN'T PUBLISHING, BUT DOES SEEM TO BE SAVING MY PROGRESS...]
8:20 -- Private health care: Tax Deductions for folks who buy into their own medical insurance. Changing the tax code to make health care more affordable? Hmmm.
8:22 -- Still nothing on foreign policy. But let's pass medical liability reform? For the doctors? or for those who suffer because of phyician blunders? "Sorry! Was I supposed to amputate the right leg!??"
8:28 -- Securing our borders Segues into a guest worker program.
8:29 -- "We need to uphold the great tradition of the melting pot that welcomes and assimilates new arrivals"
How about assimilating immigrants who WANT to assimilate... who actually make an effort to learn the language.
8:30 -- Dependence on foreign oil. The way forward is through technology. Solar, Wind, Nuclear... Battery research for hybrids... bio-diesel fuels. [All good things] Grass, wood-chips, agricultural wastes...
Or as it is more affectionately known, Caca!
8:32 -- Mandatory fuel standards. Let's start by choosing 3 or 4 grades as the standard nationwide. Currently there are at least a dozen, primarily because each state has set it's own standards, and if the Oil Co's want any action in a given state they must produce fuels that meet or exceed that states standards....
8:33 -- Doubling the national strategic oil supply.
8:34 -- Moving on to justice and the court system. Please give my nominees an up or down vote in the Senate... Good luck on that one!
8:35 -- Now we get to terrorism: "We know with certainty that the horrors of that September morning were just a glimpse of what the terrorists intend for us – unless we stop them... Yet one question has surely been settled – that to win the war on terror we must take the fight to the enemy."
Not with Dems! But Standing Ov nonetheless...
8:36 -- "Our success in this war [since 9/11] is often measured by the things that did not happen..." It's hard to quantify such results: How many deaths were averted, how much infrastructure was saved. By averting attacks its impossible to know with any degree of certainty what and who, if any, were spared... but this hardly negates the point.
8:38 -- "America is still a Nation at war"
To the chagrin of many who haven't the stomach for a fight of any length beyond three years and 3,000+ deaths despite more horrific engagements inwhich we won.
8:39 -- Rubbing everyone's nose in the successful capture [albeit the capture of a dead body] of Abu Musab al Zarqawi.
8:40 -- Protecting the American people get's Princess Nancy out of her chair for a standing Ov... which I will hence for refer to as "StOve".
8:42 -- "Despite endless threats from the killers in their midst, nearly 12 million Iraqi citizens came out to vote in a show of hope and solidarity we should never forget."
Even in the face of success, the crybabies cried.
8:44 -- "A muslim house of prayer"... more like a meeting place for extremists to plan their next sortie
"THERE ARE [STILL] ERRORS" Of course there are! It's Blogger!!
8:46 -- 25,000 man surge. Pelosi looks distracted... certainly not clapping.
8:47 -- America's commitment is not 'open-ended'... Bench marks for Iraqis...
This surge has to show quick postitive results or this war is over; America will lose the will to continue to fight, and ultimately the war because of it.
8:48 -- "Terror is their greatest ally"... and their only weapon of Consequence. And the only weapon America has yet to learn to counter effectively.
8:50 -- "This is a generational struggle"... why can't America-- the Left specifically --seem to grasp that!!??
8:52 -- "Tonight I ask the Congress to authorize an increase in the size of our active Army and Marine Corps by 92,000 in the next five years."
Not at all what Dan wants to hear!
"A second task we can take on together is to design and establish a volunteer Civilian Reserve Corps. Such a corps would function much like our military reserve. It would ease the burden on the Armed Forces by allowing us to hire civilians with critical skills to serve on missions abroad when America needs them. And it would give people across America who do not wear the uniform a chance to serve in the defining struggle of our time."
This would be great. I'd sign up for this.
8:53 -- "Iran will not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons" How will we stop it with all these linguine-spined liberals crying over milk not-yet-spilt?
8:55 -- Moving on... AIDS funding. Funding to combat Malaria in Africa. Obligatory mentions, but something that needs doing.
8:56 -- Tepid applause on debt relief for other nations.
8:56 -- Introduces the first guest in the Gallery, sitting next to Laura Bush. Dikembe? Look it up later....
[Dikembe Mutombo-- an "over-coming poverty" success story. Impressive story.
8:58 -- Next up, Julie Aigner-Clark... Baby Einstein videos "Children have the right to live in a world that is safe" StOve for Ms. Aigner-Clark.
8:59 -- Next: Wesley Autrey: The Subway Savior. WOW!!!! This man is an incredible hero!!! Major, major, major StOve for this guy, and rightly so! throwing himself in front of and under a moving subway train to save a strangers life. That he survived is a miracle in and of itself!!! Kudo's indeed! How about a medal of freedom for this guy? Soldiers get Congressional Medal's of Honor such acts!
9:00 -- Next: Tommy Rieman: Awarded the Silver Star for an act of heroism in December of '03. Rieman... "was on a reconnaissance mission in Iraq when his team came under heavy enemy fire. From his Humvee, Sergeant Rieman returned fire – and used his body as a shield to protect his gunner. He was shot in the chest and arm, and received shrapnel wounds to his legs – yet he refused medical attention, and stayed in the fight. He helped to repel a second attack, firing grenades at the enemy's position. For his exceptional courage, Sergeant Rieman was awarded the Silver Star. And like so many other Americans who have volunteered to defend us, he has earned the respect and gratitude of our whole country."
IN CLOSING:
9:03 -- "In such courage and compassion, ladies and gentlemen, we see the spirit and character of America – and these qualities are not in short supply.
9:03 -- "...we can go forward with confidence-- because the State of our Union is strong... our cause in the world is right... and tonight that cause goes on."
It's a shame there're so many people out there who can't see anything good about America.
----
Now for the peanut gallery. I have to watch Katie & Krew here at the station, but I'm DVD-ing the whole thing on FOX. I'll watch their commentary later.
Can't wait to hear the Democratic Response.
DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE
Sen Jim Webb!!?? Isn't this the guy who was so beligerently rude to Bush at a White House Party?
9:15 -- Addressing Conflicts...
9:17 -- "The economy is great but it isn't equally shared." Reverting to the tried and true 'class-warfare' tactic! Way to go, Senator! What's yer plan to improve it? Income redistribution?
9:19 -- "Living conditions on Mainstreet" Nothing wrong with this, but... most of those you'll see on mainstreet are business owners... better to look at living conditions in housing projects, and the poorer quarters. Try solving poverty rather than the evil of owning a business and attempted to secure a future nest egg.
9:20 -- Now we get to see a picture of the Senator's father. A remembrance of the sacrifices his mother had to make. And references to his son in Iraq... so this IS the guy who was rude to the president at the White House.
9:22 -- "Took us into this war recklessly" Dude! War, by definition, IS reckless!
9:22 -- "We need a new direction" Fine, but how about providing one. Democrats have proven themselves decidedly barren of ideas. Oh, plenty of accusations and criticisms, yes! [Like Sen Webb's rude remarks to the President!] But few ideas
9:19 -- "When comes the end?" Dwight D. Eisenhower quote...
When we stop pussy-footing around and get the job done.
----
Well, it could have been worse-- Kennedy could have given the response! Or Kerry!!
Katie seems to think Sen Webb's opinion on the war is above reproach, because he served in the military [so did Bush], and so, currently, is his son. Above reproach, yet given a free pass on his rudeness and poor showing at a White House party.
Over-all, I'm particularly unimpressed by either speech. The tone of Bush's speech was of 'speaking from political defeat' and Webb's was 'Petulant, and generously iced with self-righteousness and smug superiority. Another poor showing by Senator Jim Webb.
from the mind of... Eric | 8:05 PM
28 Comments:
Some of the things that the president mentioned in his speech were misleading at best.
8:18 - Economy This is a fallacy; while we have been experiencing job growth and inflation is low. Those statements are misleading because in Bush's first presidency America went through an economic slump that wasn't called a recession by only a very slim margin. Employment has only recently in the last 6 months reached pre-2000 levels. Also when talking of inflation you have to remember that inflation is the reduction of buying power in a dollar. One of the biggest causes of inflation is national debt. A truly thriving economy would have inflation as a negative number. Then the dollar would be gaining strength against itself and other world currencies.
8:20 - Healthcare You EL, should be especially worried about this idea. What Bush is talking about would encourage people to leave employer healthcare for private insurance. The only people left with employer healthcare would be those that are unwell. How long will employers pay for healthcare for just their sickest employees. Healthcare is an aspect of society where risks should be pooled in the greatest aggregate, like military security, rather than making it each persons personal burden.
8:22 - Medical Liability A little known fact is that for the last 30 years tort awards have remained about the same. Our society is no more litigious now than in the 1970's. Its only the political party beholden to corporate interests that wants to limits people's access to the courts.
8:30 - Foreign OilThis is one of my big pet peeves about politics, right and left. Only about 10% of our oil imports come from the middle east. Mainly because its so expensive to transport. The vast majority of our oil/gas/crude comes from Canada. And the majority of that black tar goes to industrial processes. Before we break our addiction to crude we'll have to figure a way to make plastic from sunlight and water.
8:32 - Fuel grades If oil companies want to be able to sell everywhere just make the cleanest possible fuel. But the companies don't want to do that because they don't get the profit margins on clean-burning fuel. They want to be able to sell the dirtiest possible fuel everywhere. And of course consumers don't mind trading the chirp of birds for that $1.99 gas. Good Stewardship, Sheesh.
8:35-8:52 Iraq, 9/11, Terrorism Here's the disconnect. Iraq is not related to 9/11 except by the thinnest thread. When Bush tries to make claims like that he looks like a high school jock more focused on Friday night's game than what was being said in social studies. Americans want to fight Islamic extremists, the global war on terrorism, al-quaida. We just don't want to be in the middle of a civil war in Iraq between two factions of Islam. Doing so for the past 4 years has weakened the country economically, militarily and morally. Afghnaistan is the War on Terror. Iraq is Bush's War. Bush can't admit that and get us out of the thick of things to limit the damage from the outside. Like a gambler that can't get up from the table he keeps trying to double the bet. In the process he's damaging his presidency and the country.
As for his civilian reserve corp, would you really want to be a mercenary, EL. Someone paid to fight without swearing loyalty to the cause.
That's bush's speech. I'll comment on your comments on Webb's speech later.
No, HERE'S the disconnect:
The inability of far too many Americans to grasp the fact that while Saddam's government was not involved in 9/11 his government WAS in contact with and supplied support and aid to al Qaida.
The fact that far too many Americans cling to the idiotic notion that Iraq is not part and parcel WITH the war on terror simply floors me! The only front in the War on Terror is Afghanistan? How convenient for such folk with poor memory and comprehension skills.
Consider the President's address to the nation on September 21, 2001...
"Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated...
"We will direct every resource at our command -- every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence, and every necessary weapon of war -- to the destruction and to the defeat of the global terror network.
"Now, this war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.
"Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes visible on TV and covert operations secret even in success.
"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.
"And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.
"From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."
It couldn't be any plainer than that.
No. Iraq did not attack us on 9-11, and yet Saddam DID have WMD's-- he was very successful at moving them with the aid of Russia and Syria --and his government DID supply aid and support to al Qaida.
The point is, Terrorism, as far as the President is-- and WAS! --concerned, is a global evil that has MANY fronts.
It astounds me that this fact doesn't sink in. It's like Geppetto trying to have a conversation with Pinnochio BEFORE the blue fairy made him more than a mere puppet.
Something else that seems to entirely escape these folks is the Economy: It is a fallacy that our Economy is doing well? Why, because we are just now getting back to PRE-2000 levels? Was the economy NOT doing well pre-2000? During Clinton's watch? Despite the bursting of the "Dot Com" Bubble? Does that mean the economy NOW isn't doing well? When the economy eventually rebounded after the '29 crash, was the economy then not doing well? The present rebounded economy! Not the impact of the crash on individuals...! THERE'S your fallacy.
But back to the present-- How further convenient to forget the fact that 9'11 threw the markets and our economy into a tailspin.
How convenient indeed, to recognize 9'11 by claiming the war on terror is limited only to Afghanistan while excluding 9'11 altogether when looking at the struggle this nation endured to get the economy back on track! And I say 'back on track' because it IS back to PRE-2000 levels. It is not fallacious of the President to say the Economy is doing well.
The mental accuity of the Left literally astounds me!
ben said:
"Before we break our addiction to crude we'll have to figure a way to make plastic from sunlight and water."
OR, conversely, we'll have to learn to do with much less in regards to plastic, petrofertilizers (which allow us to produce all our food at the rate we do), rubbers, pavement and gasoline, as well as all the stuff that all the above lets us buy.
We have an overconsumption problem: Buying more stuff at a rate that can't - won't - continue. We'll be forced to make these changes as gas prices skyrocket and supplies dwindle and demand increases. Whether that's in ten years or one hundred, that is a problem we will be faced with.
The question is: Will we wait til the last possible minute and be forced to make changes or will we try to be a bit more responsible and proactive?
I agree, ELA. The disconnect is on the Left. And watching Webb's fictionalizing of history was difficult. His command of apples and oranges makes it hard to believe he won election.
"And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. This is the limb that you're using to support all your belief in Bush on? It's a mighty slim branch.
1. Saddam was Sunni. Osama and Al-Qauada are Shia.
2. Saddam was a secular despot. Osama and Al-Quaeda and the taliban are religious fanatics.
Sure Saddam vocally endorsed any organization opposed to western countries, but when you examine whether Iraq and Al-quada were allied you quickly see it was a case of enemy of my enemy. There are numerous quotes from bin ladden where he condemns saddam as both a sunni and a secularist.
"Saddam DID have WMD's-- he was very successful at moving them with the aid of Russia and Syria If you know something that the Iraq Study Group and the 9/11 commision didn't know please prepare a news release and send it out to FOX News. Saddam had no WMD. he was not a threat to the US or his mid-east neighbors. He needed the bluff of possible WMD's to keep his own country from being invaded.
"Terrorism, as far as the President is-- and WAS! --concerned, is a global evil that has MANY fronts. " No EL possibly if we had stayed out of iraq we could have combated global terrorism in lots of places with the threat of american military force. But we can't now. We can't do anything about north korea. or china. or chechnyea. or venezuala. or darfour. We don't have the resources. This president had a very nice speech on sept. 21st 2001. Too bad he didn't listen to himself.
the economy I didn't blame the 2000 recession of bush or 9/11 or afghanistan/iraq. I didn't lay blame. If you want to try to point to clinton that's your business. I just said it happened. when the president says 41 months of continued job growth though is a sign of an enlarging economy though, that is a deception. When he talks about inflation being low that is also at best misleading. People know the rising costs of healthcare and retirement and chilcare and education and housing and groceries. A lot of the rising economic indicators measure the economy by looking at stock growth and production. The are high level indicators showing that companies are making more money and producing more goods. The few indicators that look at dollar value and wage growth that shows what the economy is like at mine and your level are almost stagnant.
Economics is statistics and unless you have knowledge of underlying factors is almost meaningless. According to the Gregorian Calendar Index things are growing and have been for the past two millenniums.
And as for the promised comment on Jim Webb's response. All I have to say is that if I met the president and he had sent my son into a war I didn't think we should be engaged in I would have much harsher language than what Mr. Webb used.
"I would have much harsher language than what Mr. Webb used"
Then you, sir, should have enough decorum and integrity to refuse the invitation to the White House. Webb was deliberately rude, and bragged about it afterward. If you can't behave civilly, stay home.
If you feel your income and lifestyle is stagnant, then you only have yourself to blame. You are without a doubt the second brightest person I personally know. There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't or shouldn't do better for yourself. Same thing for me.
Both of us have gotten too comfortable in our positions-- we've got it made at the station. We pretty much have free-reign over how our shift operates... little or no oversight... and we STILL do a bang-up job! If either of us is not making and saving enough money, we only have ourselves to blame, because neither of us is incapable of doing better.
"Webb was deliberately rude, and bragged about it afterward. If you can't behave civilly, stay home."
Really? How would you respond if you had a brother/sister/child/friend in the military and a commander-in-chief sent that loved one off to a bogus war? You'd not want to blast that president? You'd not feel that it's not a matter of rudeness but one of justice?
Or is it that you don't think any US president is capable of engaging in a bogus war?
Those are honest questions, not sniping.
Your 'bogus war' statement is itself bogus. What? Do you think there's not anyone dying over in Iraq? Perhaps it's all being filmed on a sound stage like the Moon Landings!
You camp can't accept the fact that sometimes a nation has to get it's hands dirty. You and yours remind me of doubly psychotic Felix Unger.
How's this for 'bogus'... Bush sees a need to take a despot out of commission and save thousands of lives in the process (sadly, the killing hasn't stopped, albeit for different reasons), but Clinton, when faced with an opportunity to stop the killing of tens of thousands of innocents, refused to get involved in Rwanda's genocide. And yet Clinton's praised and hailed as a great president (for doing NOTHING, even against Islamic extremists), while Bush is routinely castigated by you and your ilk.
While you and yours are diligently at work trying to carry water in a sieve, the media is hard at work distracting an all but ignorant public; convincing them with artful arguments that water is not pouring through the Sieve!!!! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!! I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL MEDIA!!!!!!
You people are TOO much!
The fact that countless people believe the swill that pours from your gobs on a daily basis is a testament to the incredible lack of intelligence of the average American citizen! Myrmidon's All!!!
You didn't answer my question, Eric.
If a US president were to send our soldiers off to a war that you thought a wrong war - not where you just disagreed with the policy, but thought the war was wrong, that it would cause harm to our security - if you thought that, wouldn't you think it your civic duty to express that to the president?
I understand fully that you support this invasion. I'm just asking hypothetically if there were a war or invasion that you thought evil or wrong, wouldn't you say so to the president and be right for saying so?
"incredible lack of intelligence of the average American citizen!"
You win many people over with this sort of charm and confidence in their intelligence?
Express? Yes. In an insultingly rude manner? No.
I'm not going to debate hypotheticals with you Dan; It's your favorite tactic, and I'm not biting.
All the media? When Michelle Malkin is sitting in for Bill O'Reily she is speaking from a series of media-wide talking points? Does Rush Limbaugh participate in this conspiracy? Glenn Beck? Laura Ingram? Neal Bortz? America's media is remarkably diverse and varied. It has depth and breadth. You just don't like that so many american don't agree with you and the media reflects the public.
If Bill Clinton proposed a troop incursion into Raswanda in the midst of the impeachment fiasco. The conservative half of the country would have revolted. It was only the tragedy of 9/11 that gave George Bush the pretext to be able to invade Iraq.
""It is critical that we understand that this new form of terrorism carries another more subtle, perhaps equally pernicious, risk. Because it might encourage a fear-driven and inappropriate response. By that I mean it can tempt us to abandon our values. I think it important to understand that this is one of its primary purposes...
London is not a battlefield. Those innocents who were murdered on July 7 2005 were not victims of war. And the men who killed them were not, as in their vanity they claimed on their ludicrous videos, 'soldiers'. They were deluded, narcissistic inadequates. They were criminals. They were fantasists. We need to be very clear about this. On the streets of London, there is no such thing as a 'war on terror', just as there can be no such thing as a 'war on drugs'.
The fight against terrorism on the streets of Britain is not a war. It is the prevention of crime, the enforcement of our laws and the winning of justice for those damaged by their infringement," Britain's director of public prosecutions, Sir Ken Macdonald.
"I'm not going to debate hypotheticals with you Dan"
But it's not hypothetical, Eric. I and many others think that Bush's invasion was a dangerous, unAmerican, unChristian act that hurts our national security, as well as global peace. That's reality.
We don't hate America. We don't hate our military. We don't even hate Bush.
But we do think his policies are dangerous. And when someone is taking what I consider dangerous actions, THAT is not the time for politeness.
"Excuse me, sir, but you're drunk and you're driving on the sidewalk in a school zone. Would you mind terribly slowing down to only 50 mph? Please?"
No, that would be ridiculous. If someone is acting dangerously and they haven't responded to the calm approach, then being rude is entirely justified.
I know that you agree with this concept. No sane person wouldn't.
It appears, though, that you so thoroughly disagree with our position that you are not willing to say that you would do the same (and maybe more, if you're the type that believes in violent solutions) if you thought the same way we do.
Is it not a deeply Christian and American concept to understand the notion of walking a mile in someone else's shoes?
Dan said: "I'm just asking hypothetically..."
That's what I thought! And I'm not going to fall into that trap.
Dan further said: "Is it not a deeply Christian and American concept to understand the notion of walking a mile in someone else's shoes?"
Talk to me about walking in someone else's shoes after you pull the beam out of your own eye and imagine yourself walking in George W. Bush's shoes; having to make the decisions he's made with a press corp so thoroughly against everything you say and do, and your every policy maligned, misrepresented, and in some cases outright lied about.
What makes you think I haven't considered Bush's position? Have you not read me ruminating on and on about what I would do faced with the same situation?
The press corps, for their part, are only doing their job and only doing so marginally well. They have given the president a pass and passed over the hardball questions too often, too often failed to call him on mistruths and misperceptions.
You need to understand that there's not some vast left wing conspiracy to undo Bush and America. Just ordinary citizens who love their country like you do and who have a different opinion.
And you're not falling for the "trap" of considering others' points of view? Why is that a trap (un-hypothethetically-speaking)?
mom2 said:
"If you were to pray for our leaders..."
Sister mom2, it appears that one of the consistent sins of humanity is that of presumptiousness. I DO pray for our president. Regularly and fervently.
Hardly a week goes by at our church where we don't all pray for him and all the mess he's causing by his actions.
Hardly a time goes by that I read Bush's latest comments that I don't roll my eyes heavenward and pray, "oh, Lord, have mercy!"
Don't presume, it makes a PRES out of U and ME...or something like that.
[Sighs... Rolls eyes Heavenward...]
Lord, please have mercy.
"Saddam had no WMD."
How do you know? What evidence do you have of it? What measures did the US take to bring this "fact" to light?
Oh yeah...we went there and checked.
Because the leader of that country made sure we all thought he did have WMDs.
And...how can you prove they didn't/don't exist?
Because our military is THERE?
And...how would you have come to that conclusion without our military being there?
For someone to accuse others of having weak arguments, BenT, you offer little in strength of position.
mom2 said:
"It sounds like you're telling God what a mess he's causing and God knows better than we do what is going on."
If you had a child who was getting in trouble with the law, maybe vandalism or robbery, would you pray similarly? Wouldn't you pray, "God, that boy of mine is making a mess of his life and those around him! Won't you help him change his ways? Won't you help me have the strength to straighten out and repent of his trouble making? Lord, give him wisdom to see what he's doing, oh please. In Jesus' name, Amen"
Might your prayer go something like that?
That's how we often pray for our leaders, Bush included. Probably not that different than you would if you were in the same situation.
yEah, Dan! We do pray for the leftist leaders whose policies are driving our nation into the ground!
Couldn't answer my question?
How do you know there are/were no WMDs, Dan?
Dan's comparative story(his penchant for such having made him famous, at least here!)/Prayer does picture the President as a wayward child with less ability to reason and see sense than Dan and his crew who obviously see themselves as intellectually superior (This may be the case for some some of Dan's prayer buddies. After all, presidents have never been raised to office because of their intelligence. Neither have presidents reflected the brightest men our nation had to offer at the time) but there isn't an honest plea to God for the president in that prayer... Only judgments based on personal politics...
"making a mess of his life and those around him",
To imply that Bush is incapable of seeing or understanding the chaos that continues to reign and threaten the world and its peoples...
"help me have the strength to straighten out and repent of his trouble making",
To imply it is Dan's responsibility to straighten out the wayward 'Child' Bush. Then further confuse the issue by requesting strength enough to repent for another man's shortcomings. Truth is, Since I highly doubt Dan voted for Bush, he has nothing to repent of.
"give him wisdom to see what he's doing, oh please"
To imply only Dan and his Deletorious Dilettantes are wise enough to see wisdom in the War against Islamofascism.
It's a prayer filled with hubis akin to a certain Pharisee's who prayed...
"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess." --Luke 18:11-12
Pray in humbleness FOR our president, rather than hubris FROM a seat of greater understanding... Pray for the man, not his policies. Pray for the man, and if he repents his policies will change... Assuming there's anything wrong with his policies to begin with.
Better we should all pray that Democrats, primarily, cease their foolish playing of politics at our military's expense. What's the purpose of a 'non-binding' resolution that says we deplore the war, while simultaneously refusing to defund the war and confirming unanimously the general who designed, and will implement, the very strategy the 'non-binding' resolution deplores!? These people are playing a dangerous game of politics with America's reputation and American lives. They want America to lose in Iraq... There is no other plausible explanation for there shameful rhetoric and actions.
Perhaps we'd be better off meditating on and echoing in our spirits to God Almighty the prayers of David from the Psalms. Or better yet, that God's will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven. Let's pray for His return, because the sooner He comes, the sooner we can finally see an earth where a righteous King rules. The sooner Christ sits on His throne in Jerusalem, the sooner we get to the restoration of Earth and an end to sin.
"It's a prayer filled with hubis akin to a certain Pharisee's who prayed..."
Okay, try this on for size:
If you had a brother or friend (and not a child) who was in trouble with the law, would you not pray, "Lord, have mercy on my brother. His wayward life is causing such a mess. Help him find a better way."
Wouldn't you pray in this manner? The point of my previous illustration was not that you were the "better" person praying for the "poor child" but that you'd be praying for the one making a mess of their life and the lives around them.
Or perhaps we might say a prayer like this one:
"Deliver me, LORD, from the wicked; preserve me from the violent, From those who plan evil in their hearts, who stir up conflicts every day, Who sharpen their tongues like serpents, venom of snakes upon their lips..."
Would that prayer be a wrong prayer to pray about a president?
mom2 asked:
"You are just full of comparative stories, aren't you, Dan? Is that a strawman argument that you were mentioning in another post?"
um, no. It's not a strawman. It's a comparison to help you understand my position. A Strawman argument would be one where I say that you're saying "X" when you actually said "A" and then I tear down "X." It's not a strawman at all.
I must say that y'all seem to never want to put yourself in another's shoes to think about what they're saying/thinking. That it seems like y'all'd rather just twist people's words and, yes, erect strawmen to knock down and not deal with what people are actually saying.
Are you meaning to come across like that? Because it is how you're coming across, at least to me.
My point was and remains that, if you have someone - leader or not - who is behaving badly as you understand it, that you would pray for them to stop behaving badly. That was my only point.
I'm sure you all must agree with this, since you're all Christians.
El pointed out:
"To imply it is Dan's responsibility to straighten out the wayward 'Child' Bush."
I did have a typo there. I meant to say, "help me have the strength to DO WHAT I CAN TO HELP HIM straighten out and repent of his trouble making" - sorry for the typo.
About "A" president but certainly not George W. Bush. Your excerpt from Psalm 140 betrays your disdain for our current president. How can anyone who believes that particular passage is applicable to president Bush while conveniently forgetting William Jefferson Clinton, is beyond me. Here's the short list: Accused of Rape, sexual assault, sexual indiscretions, and adultry. To say nothing of ruling his empire by opinion polls, allowing terrorists to flourish and attack U.S. targets without sincere reprisals-- if at all! Tucking tail and running in Somalia. Who lied on television to the American people, the world, AND God... Who lied before a federal grand jury.
And the list goes on and on and on.
Your reasonable prayer reeks of hypocrisy. Just admit you despise the very ground George W. Bush walks on, and let's move on.
Eric, brother - I never mentioned George W in my quote from David (and my questions remain unanswered!). I didn't mention W because I wasn't thinking of W.
I am doing what I've been trying to do here, get you all to try to understand where the majority of Americans are coming from. I'm trying to get you to understand that, when one is faced with a leader they don't trust and who they think is dangerous, it is EXTREMELY important, Biblical and Christian to pray in a manner as I did and do, when we pray for our president.
You read "George W" into something that I never intended W to be referenced.
And THEN you accuse me of supporting Clinton, when I NEVER mentioned Clinton, either. Not in this post and usually, in other contexts, the only time I mention Clinton is when I talk about how much I didn't like him as president!
You're either deliberately building strawmen out of my words or unknowingly doing so. I've never said nor hinted at any of the things you just said!
At least, you have finally conceded that you would pray as I have prayed for "A president" just not W. That's all I'm saying. You would pray thusly if you thought as I do. That's all I am saying and nothing else.
I won't admit that I hate Bush because I don't. I will admit that your hubris and "know-better-than-you" attitude is irritating. This is exactly the sort of stuff that puts people off of Christianity.
"Dan, I know you didn't say that you hate Bush, but really...you do. That, and you love Clinton. I know you've said otherwise, but believe me. I know."
sheesh.
You wasn't thinking of W? Why, he's been the focus of this entire discussion, how was I to know you weren't thinking of him!? You didn't preface your use of Psalm 140.
As to the other, I continually find it awfully convenient that people you agree with, politically speaking, can castigate Bush at every opportunity for all and sundry, while ignoring the many and frequent sins of our previous president. Even to the point of making excuses for Clinton's bad behavior.
I don't have time to build strawmen. The term and concept as I've seen it labelled and used here online is generally nothing more than an accusation leveled at someone who has struck a nerve in a heated debate. So... The topic here was and has been George W. Bush. I'm building no strawman. You say you and your prayer group routinely pray for our leaders, one of whom IS the president, and then throw out the first couple of verses of Psalm 140, which I can only assume is in response to my previous call for adopting the prayers of David via the Psalms, and what else am I to think? That you didn't reference this passage of scripture toward Bush?
If I thought as you do, I would not have used Psalm 140. Instead, as I usually do, I'd adopt the tone I described previously... to ask when God will come to set up his Kingdom that His will may finally be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.
I'm reminded of the verse that says, "touch not mine anointed"... And Bush is anointed of God to be our leader for this time... as was Clinton in his. All of our rulers have their position and authority from God. Many misuse it, few don't. Many have their position for specific reasons, but always to advance God's plan.
You can't imagine how it rankles me to hear you and others say, "This President" as though his name would sully the lips that uttered it. It is the height of disrespect, and I take offense because of it.
It offends me that people who claim an education and a modicum of intelligence insist on seeking personal power in the name of party politics and personal fortunes, forgetting the needs of the people who gave them their positions of authority; politicians who can't see the bridge ahead is out... the cliff is looming... that our enemy has clearly stated, and demonstrated their intent... to see us and our way of life, dead on the ash-heap of history. I have no other name for such people than 'Idiots' and 'Thieves'. Idiots, because they are blind to what even the blind can recognize. Thieves, because they seek to sell this nation's next generation's birthright of freedom for a pottage of political stew. I liken this nation's political process to Edom. They are little better than the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Little better that warring factions of Sunni and Shia.
I appreciate you saying you do not hate Bush. I'd like to say that was enough, but I'd much rather see it demonstrated in your comments here, and on your own blog. But you won't even defend me, a brother in Christ, when M W-W calls me a fool on your blog... Call me on the carpet if I'm being foolish; I expect that. We are our brothers keepers, after all, and it is as much responsibility to protect the purity of our brothers and sisters as it is our own. I have a right, as your brother, to expect that. What I don't expect is your lack of defense of brothers you disagree with politically.
And having said all that, you're STILL welcome here. Imagine that, brother.
INVOKING R.O.E.
Someone has actually succeeded in getting censored here: Only 30% of this persons comment was fit to print...
The author said...
"I'm reminded of the verse that says, "touch not mine anointed"... And Bush is anointed of God to be our leader for this time... as was Clinton in his. All of our rulers have their position and authority from God. Many misuse it, few don't. Many have their position for specific reasons, but always to advance God's plan."
I must have missed the part of George W. Bush's inauguration where Billy Graham smeared his forehead with blessed oil.
This is a secular nation. I know the idea scares you, but its the truth. Christians here have no more special place than anyone else, not in private life or political. Christians aren't picked last for flag football. They aren't kept from voting, or acting, or singing or preaching. Neither are muslims. That's the idea this nation was founded upon. If you would prefer anything else then YOU are UNamerican. If you want a head of government that is really annointed by god move to england. Although even there they completely disagree with your characterization of the islamic faith.
----
And that's that. This last statement is also acceptable:
"THIS COMMENT BROUGHT TO YOU WITH EXTRA SARCASM"
...And indeed it was.
Everything we do works to God's favor; it accomplishes His purpose... even tyrants and kings.
George Bush is as much God's servant as Ahmadinejad is. Each contribute to God's overall purpose.
This is indeed a secular nation, but it was not always so. America used to be a Christian nation. But even as a Christian nation men and women were still welcome to worship as they pleased. The religion of Islam is inherently evil, but still Muslims are welcome to worship Allah. That's what separates America from many Muslim nations... Our ability to accept a faith we would not necessarily choose for ourselves. Islam is not so tolerant.
"You can't imagine how it rankles me to hear you and others say, "This President" as though his name would sully the lips that uttered it. It is the height of disrespect, and I take offense because of it."
And one of my points has been that there is a great biblical tradition of calling down unfaithful leaders. Jesus called the Jewish leaders snakes! blind guides! white-washed tombs!
As noted, David and other psalmists prayed for the destruction of leaders they disagreed with, who they felt were being unGodly with their violence.
The prophets have a tradition of telling Kings - sometimes not so respectfully - that their downfall is a-coming.
AGAIN, I suspect that you agree with the notion, you just disagree with us pointing our fingers and rebukes towards this particular administration. That's your privilege.
You must follow your calling and understanding of God.
But, by God, I must follow mine!
And I would be quite the fool to let your disapproval stop me.
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