Stream of Consciousness, River of Truths
"When our enemy declares war on our God and His message, blaspheming His Son by saying He is the slave of Mohammed, it’s time for us to ask Him to unleash his anger at those who hate us for His name’s sake."
--Kathy
from Oh, how I love Jesus
In other words, Jesus is the slave of Satan. In his dreams, perhaps! But God is no idol's slave, and that is precisely what Allah is: An idol... a false god. And those who worship it are unwitting slaves to damnation. They are so deeply ensnared nothing I or anyone else can ever do will open their eyes to the truth. Only God can open their eyes.Which brings me to a conversation I had with a friend earlier this evening... Ideologies are every bit as addicting as alcohol or drugs, with but one not so obvious difference. Go into any bar and walk up to the first drunk person you see-- trust me, they stand out. Look him or her in the eye and ask them flat out, "Are you drunk?" They will invariably say one of three things:
1. "Hell, yeah, I'm drunk! What's it to you?"
2. "I'm gettin' there! What's it to ya?"
3. "Who wants to know? And why should I care?"
Anyone who ever drank to excess knew they were drunk. But ask a person if they're deceived by their ideology and you'll hear,
"Absolutely not! What I believe about God and heaven is absolutely the truth. It's everyone else that's mixed up!"No one believes they are deceived. The god they believe in is the only god; everyone else is a fakir, a fraud, and a lie from the devil himself. They can ALL defend their beliefs with pet scriptures, scientific facts and personal affirmations. And every one of them is willing to die for it.
And that's something else altogether-- Everyone is willing to die for something, if not someone. For indeed, everyone does die for something; be it God, their own version of god, or a selfish refusal to deny themselves the life they want to live. In the end, everyone has died for something.
We know what Muslims are dying for. They are dying for a guaranteed seat at the heavenly table. In Islam, that is the only sure way of going to heaven. Die peacefully in bed, and you have to hope your good deeds out-weigh your bad. In other words, it's a crap-shoot. But die in Jihad and it's 72 perpetual virgins in a hedonistic self-indulgent humanistic paradise.
What muslims don't know however is that their version of God-- neatly packaged in a handy .exe file labeled, god_v1.2 --is wholly inconsistent with every word that has proceeded from God Almighty up to Muhammad's other-worldly vision. Allah is wholly incompatible with what Jews and Christians know of God. But short of the Holy Spirit cracking open that nut of a heart, the average muslim would rather die than entertain the notion that for 14 centuries they have been duped by the REAL Great Satan himself.
It is quite true that KNOWING truth makes you free. It is easier for such a one to see the difference, to be able to distinguish between truth and falsehood. For the one caught in the vise-like grip of error, it is all but impossible to see past the lie.
In Muhammad's faith it is acceptable to lie, if it advances the cause of Allah-- Not so in Christ's. In Muhammad's faith it is ones duty to either bring the infidel into the faith of Allah, accept the rulership of the Caliphate and pay exhorbitant taxes, or kill them-- Not so in Christ's.
In Muhammad's faith it is acceptable to divorce and remarry as often as one pleases-- Not so in Christ's.
In Muhammad's faith it was acceptable to marry a six year old girl, and consummate the marriage when she turned nine-- Not so in Christ's.
There are literally hundreds of contradictions in the faith of Muhammad.
The fact remains, however, that any spirit that says Christ has NOT come in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist. That is to say, anyone or any religion that denies Christ and all He stood for, is not of God. Satan has been working at a fevered pace to lessen the victory of Christ as much as he can, casting millions into hell with false doctrines and false religions. And it's not just Muslims. Satan is alive and well, and working dilligently within the pews, and beneath the banner and guise of Christendom. There are Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, Mason's and Shriners; there's Armstrongism, and death cults like Jim Jones, you'll even see a few false prophets on TBN. Then there are the other beliefs; Hinduism, Buddhism, and Khrishna's and Moonies, Oh, MY!. The point is, all of these religions and faiths attempt to put a boundless God into the confines of an ideological box. A quite impossible thing to do, granted, but they try nonetheless, never realizing that God has already put Himself in a box of his own design.
The walls of the Box that contains our boundless, omnipotent God, is his holiness. His purity. His unstained-by-sin-and-corruption nature. God has said,
"I will give them my son, that through His blood they might be restored unto me. It is MY blood that I shed for mankind. And because it is MY blood. I will allow no other path to reach the gates of heaven. For this is the path that I have ordained from the foundation of the world."But Satan continues to whisper, "Yea, hath God said?" If all the many different religions in the world seem confusing to you, just remember that in God there is only clarity... Satan is the author of confusion.
I found the above picture at Brooke's place, and was deeply offended by it. Not simply offended in my religiosity... My faith... But in the very corridors of my intellect as well. If Jesus is God in human flesh, how can God then be the slave of Allah?
Let those who are called to the mission field do their work. They have been called, they will work the fields wherein God has planted them and bear much fruit. It is ONLY, however, their job to plant the seeds of truth. The Sower cannot make, by any power he possesses, any seed to germinate, and spring forth with life... That is the sole purview of the Father, via the work of the Holy Spirit. Realistically, that is all any of us can do-- plant seed... and pray.
So let the missionaries do their work, but let the rest of us pray that their seed-- His word --not return void; that it accomplish the work to which it was sent: be it regeneration unto salvation or condemnation unto punishment. It will be one or the other. His word will NOT return void. Each seed planted will bear some manner of fruit.
In closing, Ms. Green presented a piece at her place on Imprecatory Prayer. As her post inspired this one, so too, a post at Oh, How I Love Jesus inspired hers. I'm a very well read man, but this is one word I was unfamiliar with-- Imprecatory...
Imprecatory prayer is a last resort appeal to God for justice. The so called 'curses' are simply the just penalty called for in the scriptures for the alleged crime. Imprecatory prayer is an appeal to the court of divine justice (1) for protection and (2) the appropriate punishment for the criminals.Interestingly enough, imprecatory prayer is not entirely unknown to me, as I have engaged in it in the past-- albeit unwittingly --in a post from October '05 entitled, An Exercise in Facetiousness. This is not to say imprecatory prayer is in any way facetious, only that the prayer which follows was written facetiously. Hmmm. Now that I get a good look at it, it's more praise for how God has already punished someone...Hmmm, but here it is nonetheless...
--from Imprecatory Prayer at MosesHand.com
Glory be to God,
The most Holy God of Heaven!
The stamp of thy foot
Upon the lands of the infidel Muslims
Heartens your righteous servants,
The children of God, through
Christ our Lord!
Praise to God in the Highest!
Praise to Christ His son!
Let us not be faint in the presence of His spirit.
Let us smash the heathen Muslims
Who seek to destroy the faithful,
The true followers of God Almighty.
The only God, our Lord!
Your foot did stamp
And the mountains shook!
Your foot did stamp,
And the valleys quaked!
Your foot did stamp
And the people were crushed
Beneath thy righteous anger!
Let your righteous anger crush
The children of Satan
Let your righteous anger humble
The arrogance of Islam
Let your righteous anger chasten
The souls of the unrepentant
Let thy will be done!
God, our father, What a mighty blow
You have struck against our enemies!
Lead us to peace, Oh God
Lead us to righteousness
Where no evil dwells
Lead us to victory, Oh God
Against the Infidel Muslims!
Praise be to God!
I don't imagine the Lord was very pleased with my sarcastic tone. If one is going to pray imprecatorily, one should at least be serious, sober, and cognizant of what one is asking of God.
And although I see the basis in scripture for such prayer, I still wonder if such prayer is akin to giving up... To failing God. Then again, praying that evil be crushed beneath the foot of God's righteous anger is not 'failing God'. Nor is it 'giving up'. Each time we pray, 'Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven' we are in fact praying for Christ's return and all that it entails... including the great tribulation, billions of deaths and souls lost, and Christ's righteous judgment of the nations.
from the mind of... Eric | 10:43 PM
19 Comments:
You mean like praying for God to rain down fire from Heaven to consume the priests of Ba'al?
LOL!
Beautiful post, EL!
Excellent post - and thanks for the link - and when I pray I also say thanks for the faithful - a great source of encouragement. Phil 1:3
"No one believes they are deceived."
If this is so (and I'm not disagreeing), then how do you know you're not deceived?
And, as a follow up, you said, "'Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven' we are in fact praying for Christ's return and all that it entails..."
With which I agree, but then you follow that up with,
"...including the great tribulation, billions of deaths and souls lost"
Which would be your interpretation of how things will be, your best guess.
I think this whole fallibity of humanity issue that you raise is one reason the teachings of the Bible are so sensible. They teach us to be conservative in the best sense in our approach to things.
"Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord..." If we allow that to be so and trust in God for our defense, then we'll never be on the wrong end of the sword. We can pray all we want for God to vanquish the enemy and have a biblical precedence for it and we'll have never committed any atrocities.
But as soon as we say, "Step back God, allow me to mete out a bit of vengeance on Your behalf," we're taking the great risk that we are the ones who've been deceived and as a result, commit atrocities - even in God's name. What a horrible position to place one's self.
"Which would be your interpretation of how things will be, your best guess."
Au Contraire, mon frere! The book of Revelation is quite specific as to numbers (deaths). Jesus Himself spoke of the Great Tribulation, and it's not "my interpretation," it's from the lips of Christ and the pen of John, through the INSPIRATION of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit's purpose to guide us or lead us into 'all truth.' those are our savior's words.
Just how much of Revelation do you believe to be:
Figurative--
Allegorical--
Literal--
???
Do you believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God? Do you think the Holy Spirit had power to guide the authors of scripture in choosing the right words? The right turn of phrase? John penned the letter we know as The Revelation but God Himself is the author.
It's not my interpretation. Consider also that John wrote of future events with a limited 1st century understanding. How would he describe modern warfare?
Just what is being taught at your church?
"...never be on the wrong end of the sword"
Is it your contention that it is always wrong to use the sword? That is not at all scriptural.
Now, do you mean simply vengence? That is wrong. But if you include capital punishment, nope... sorry, that is not wrong.
As to war. War is inevitable. Killing, therefore, in time of war is inevitable, and not the same as murder. Murder is most certainly wrong.
My question had to do with our fallibility - the notion that we MAY be wrong on any given point. YOUR interpretation of Revelation is flawed if, for no other reason, you are a human prone to flaws. As am I.
So my question is, KNOWING that we may well be wrong, what is the most prudent thing to do, the best way to behave?
(as to some of your specific questions to me, I view Revelation to be largely allegorical, I think that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, I think that the Holy Spirit had power to guide the authors of scripture in choosing the right words BUT that WE - YOU and I - are prone to fail in our interpretation of God's Word. Surely you agree with this?
"Just what is being taught at your church?" The Bible, God's Word and humility (although you'd never know it by me!).
"...although you'd never know it by me!"
A BREAKTHRUOUGH!
LOL!
Daddio: LOL!
Excellent, excellent post, EL! I will link to it tomorrow; it needs to be spread around!
I agree with Martin Luther that The Revelation should have been cut from the Canon. But since it remains, I respect that it has some usefulness, although I couldn't tell you what.
I also find it amusing, and when taken to the extreme, worrisome, when puny humans feel the need to take up arms to defend God! Talk about hubris.
What people are quick to defend is way of life, comfort, culture, doctrine, dogma and catma -- lots of stuff that ain't God, for God needs no defenders.
All that stuff is based on fear, which ain't faith.
As for the "imprecatory" prayers. David even, considering his murderous, rapacious, lustful, proud heart, was quick to repent, which is more than I can say for many believers nowadays -- especially those just itchin' to get into a fight, or worse, to answer the call for a "holy" "war."
Despite David's sins, I'd never dare put myself in the position, as he did, of proclaiming to know God's will well enough to pray down God's wrath on ANYONE, especially when Jesus was so, well, you know, not like that at all.
The only prayer any of us, whether we are "fervent" and "righteous" or full of ourselves and fearful, can pray with confidence is the Lord's Prayer, and "God's will be done."
There is no hubris here.
Christ gave me and everyone else who believes power to become sons of God. If we are to receive any blessings of God we must ask, in prayer. He wants to hear everything despite the fact that He already knows what we need, and want; what is appropriate for us, and what is not. He is God, yes, but He is not some distant unapproachable being of fury and wrath; there is no need that we should fear Him as such. He is our Father. He will chasten us from time to time in love, but never cruelly.
If my prayers displease Him, He will punish me in love, not wrath. Yes, I am to love and pray for all men. But at the same time I am to pray for His righteousness upon this earth. If I choose to pray for the destruction of Islam as a system, I do well. When I choose to pray for the salvation of its followers, I do better. That is what he wants of me.
Hubris cannot approch His throne, let alone glory in His presence. But as a child of God, we can approach His throne boldly; in confidence.
So let me get this straight...
We are supposed to pray "God's Will be done..." and then all stand around with our hands in our pockets and wait while a horde of Terrorists continue to murder is in the name of a false god?
Jesus died for my sins so that I don't have to.
And if I have misinterpreted my role in whether to support those who would defend me from people who want to murder me in the name of thier god, and I commit sin by not speaking out against my own country, and the leaders that I voted for, THEN GOD WILL FORGIVE ME.
And so far, God has not convicted me of sin, neither for my actions, nor my attitudes, and He continues to Bless me in ways that I cannot even tell you about.
When He does, I will ask for His forgiveness.
ER would have the whole of Christianity be led as a lamb to slaughter.
I still believe that we as Christians have a whole lot of work left to do in Christ's name.
Hey, this is a great line:
"Jesus died for my sins so that I don't have to."
It doesn't make sense, scripturally. But it's a great line. Kinda like those old Yosemite Sam T-shirt: "Heaven or Hell: Turn or Burn." Fun line. But not very Jesusy.
And, no, Tug. I would have people weep and gnash their teeth, and resort to defense to defend themselves -- not to pridefully and boastfully think they know God's mind, and "march" off to a war of aggression in Jesus name. Fight when the fight is afoot, and repent of it. But never pretend God's on your side over against the other side. God is on the side of the babies, the senile, and the innocents -- on all sides.
"and then all stand around with our hands in our pockets and wait while a horde of Terrorists continue to murder..."
I truly wonder are folk who are opposed to pacifists or even strict Just War Theorists just unable to understand what we're saying or do they deliberately misrepresent what we're saying?
Repeatedly.
Over and over and over and over.
I could try to help clear things up by saying, once again:
NO ONE - no pacifists or peacemakers - IS SUGGESTING STANDING BY AND DOING NOTHING IN THE FACE OF TERRRORISTS.
Now, what I mean by that is NOT that I think we should do nothing. Rather, as I have said repeatedly, we'd take meaningful steps to confront oppression. Some would even join in physical fighting in the case of an actual defense situation.
What I mean by that is, as the latest reports are saying (despite Bush's "Up is Down" denials), that invading countries unprovoked is not the way to stop terrorism. It will only make things worse.
I COULD say all of that, but then I've said it all before and what some will hear me saying is, "Huh! He'd have us stand still and get killed by terrorists!"
Or is it that they're deliberately misrepresenting our position?
I truly wonder.
Dan, I think they're just mad because all the hope they put in this president, and the GOP in general, to advance their con-con-neocon social causes is failing, for the most part, because the most powerful people in the GOP really don't *care* for social conservatives, just their votes in continued support of the very rich, who laugh all the way to the dang bank every election day -- and that colors everything else.
They've let rght-wing rhetoricians scare them with the A-bomb and the H-bomb (abortion and homosexuality) to keep them from voting with the party that historically, and to this day, does more for everyday people in this country.
Voting for a Dem will no more "advance the homosexual agenda" than voting for a Repub will bring a balanced budget. Voting for a Dem is a vote for the status quo on abortion -- but they don't want that, even though most Americans appear to want things left as they are.
And they can't have *that* when they could have an officeholder who would say all the right things against abortion, but not do a dang thing about it -- and continue voting against their economic and actual family interests.
It's plumb crazy.
"...fighting in the case of an actual defense situation."
That's the problem, you see, Dan. You are in a state of denial about our situation. Our actions are aggressively defensive. Our efforts are to PREVENT the promised threat from coming to fruition.
The Cap'n might better have said that we should pray for God's will then sit back and DENY there is an imminent threat.
That's just stupid! We have been attacked. We are under attack. Let's kick thier collective @ss!
So with that logic, Daddio, why not go on and drop a few preemptive nukes on Iran, Syria, N Korea, Syria and...umm, let's see, how about Montana since there's so many crazy folk out there?
Oh, I forget. That IS what you're advocating.
You'll pardon me and the rest of the free world if we find that solution entirely morally bankrupt and simply crazy. Thanksfully, you're in a tiny minority on this and you'll never realize your haunted nightmare-solutions.
Okay.
First of all, ER and Dan, nobody from the U.S. has "marched off to a war of aggression in Jesus name."
(We might have been more successful if we had, but we haven't.)
We (right now) are engaged in a struggle against insurgents in Iraq who are attempting to stop us from installing and nurturing a system of Government there which would allow the people of Iraq to be FREE.
Not oppressed by a Tyrannical Dictator like they have been for decades, or oppressed by Sharia Law if they choose not to be.
In order for the People of Iraq to come to know the Saving Grace of Jesus, and Him crucified for our (and their) Salvation, they MUST have this Freedom.
(This freedom to embrace Christianity openly if they so choose was not the goal of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, but would certainly be a very important benifit of a U.S. victory there, from the perspective of a true Christian.)
Yet you and Dan, and the people with whom you both align yourselves politically, continue to relentlessly oppose the attempt to help the people of Iraq realize the Freedom to embrace the one true path to Salvation (should they choose to do so), because according to you two, Jesus would not do that?
Yes. We went to War to protect lifestyle, comfort, culture, doctrine, and dogma. If these things hold no importance to you, then please kindly get out of the way while the rest of us defend them for you.
We over here on the right side of this discussion (take that however you want...) are glad to use the situation of the War in Iraq, and the inevitable outcome of the U.S. engagement there for whatever good can be achieved in Jesus' Name, but we do not claim to know the mind of God, nor have we attempted to co-opt the message of Jesus to support our opinions concerning the matter of the War in Iraq.
That's YOUR bag.
A few points...
Solomon-- Thank you for the link; the article is a real eye-opener. I'm developing a post on its merits, not to counter the article but to lay out what I see in it. It's truly a very instructive read.
Cap'n-- "This freedom to embrace Christianity openly if they so choose was not the goal of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, but would certainly be a very important benifit of a U.S. victory there, from the perspective of a true Christian" An aspect of victory, I'm ashamed to say, I had not considered. Thank you for your contribution.
ER-- I did say in an earlier comment... "If I choose to pray for the destruction of Islam as a system, I do well. When I choose to pray for the salvation of its followers, I do better. That is what he wants of me." This is all I advocate. And in light of Cap'n's assessment that spreading the Gospel becomes less... hazardous... for both evangelist and potential convert... in a freer society, war is not ugly step-mother one might at first think.
Furthermore, at some point it becomes needful that we be able to take God at his word, His WHOLE word. Picking and choosing what to believe from God's word because a few "scholars" think Jesus might not have really said this or that, or that Martin Luther felt Revelation should have been ejected from the canon is, in my estimation, Hubris on a grand, colossal scale. The early church didn't question these letters/books, who then are we to decide what was and was not said, or what is and is not applicable in terms of what we should and should not be doing as Christians? God wrote that book through the artifice of human hands. If God could put himself in Mary's womb and suffer all the indignites of being human-- going to the bathroom, sickness, vomiting, scraped knees and banged shins, knowing full well His creation was going to kill Him in the end, and then take His life back up! ...Do you think he would allow the Bible we have today to have survived in it's present form? [And I lean heavily to the KJV in that regard] Do you genuinely believe God was powerless in the writing, translation, and preservation of His word?
It is the height of conceit-- Hubris, if you will --to suggest that the Bible is NOT the infallible, inerrant word of God. And that is exactly what you suggest when you choose to believe that... "Jesus was so, well, you know, not like that at all," while conveniently forgetting the time He drove out the money-changers and over-turned their tables. "Be angry and sin not" is the ideal, and Jesus/God embodied that Ideal every day of His mortal existence.
If you want to look at "Thou shalt not kill" in a Hebraic context, you'll discover that 'murder' is implied. God would never tell anyone to do that which is contrary to His holy nature. When God commanded Joshua to kill them all; men, women, children [even the beasts in some cases] please understand that this is not in contradiction to His holiness... It was not contrary to His nature as a holy God. When wars become inevitable, the distinction between murder and killing is just as applicable. Killing in time of war is not murder. Murders do occur in time of war, but bloodshed is the inevitable outcome of Adam's sin. The very first act of violence ever mentioned in the bible is the murder of Abel.
Islam as a system, must be utterly destoyed... it is an affront to God. It may be that we will never fully destroy Islam or obliterate the name of Allah from the vocabulary of men, but God will. It is Hubris for both sides to claim God is on their side [of which a post at ER's place some time ago... Twain's(?) "War Prayer" is a stark reminder]. But it is not Hubris to say God desires His word spread throughout the world, that all who would, might come freely to the saving knowledge of Christ. War, while not the most ideal of vehicles for such evangelism, is not beyond God's ability to use for His glory. Everything happening in the world today is by His sovereign plan. To repeat a salient point from the original post...
"For the one caught in the vise-like grip of error, it is all but impossible to see past the lie."
Those caught in the vice-like grip of Islam will never see past the lie unless someone goes to them and spreads the good news. Freedom makes that easier. If that were the only justification we have for this current war on Islamic Facism, in Iraq and elsewhere-- intellecually, you have to know there will be 'elsewheres' --we would be no better than the Jihadis. But the fact remains, they attacked us.
To quote President Karzai of Afghanistan yesterday at a White House Press Conference...
"...[T]errorism was hurting us way before Iraq or September 11th. The President mentioned some examples of it. These extremist forces were killing people in Afghanistan and around for years, closing schools, burning mosques, killing children, uprooting vineyards, with vine trees, grapes hanging on them, forcing populations to poverty and misery.
They came to America on September 11th, but they were attacking you before September 11th in other parts of the world. We are a witness in Afghanistan to what they are and how they can hurt. You are a witness in New York. Do you forget people jumping off the 80th floor or 70th floor when the planes hit them? Can you imagine what it will be for a man or a woman to jump off that high? Who did that? And where are they now? And how do we fight them, how do we get rid of them, other than going after them? Should we wait for them to come and kill us again? That's why we need more action around the world, in Afghanistan and elsewhere, to get them defeated -- extremism, their allies, terrorists and the like."
At least he understands the necessity fo this 'War on Terror'.
And finally to answer Dan's question...
Because the Holy Spirit resides in me, and He has made Himself manifestly known to me. I know in the instant I have displeased Him, and I likewise know when I have pleased Him greatly.
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