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Sunday, March 25, 2007

Evidence of Global Warming?

The U.S. side of Niagra Falls ran out of water on February 22, 1903... believe it or not!

The culprit? Drought.

9 Comments:

Anonymous said...: If you spent any serious time looking at the facts for arguing for global warming you might could make at least plausible arguments.

Global warming will not magically evaporate all the water on earth. No one serious has ever made this prediction. What scientists are saying is that global warming can disrupt the global oceanic and atmospheric cycles that have determined climates across the globe for the most recent 10,000 years.

Take for example Greenland. If Greenland, which is basically a huge glacier ice cube, were to suddenly quickly melt if would send a huge amount of cold water into the Atlantic ocean. Beyond the obvious fact of the ocean level rising, this could also completely disrupt the Gulf Stream current.

The gulf stream is a current of warm water in the atlantic that flows from the tropics up towards england and europe. This current also carries along warm air that moderates the climate of most of western europe. If that stream were interrupted, then europe's climate would become colder.

So global warming isn't going to dry up the Thames. It might just cause it to freeze up 100 days out of the year. Imagine how that would affect english life.

Learn about global warming before you try to dispute it.; March 26, 2007 12:44 PM
Eric said...: What? Global warming only melts ices and glaciers? But doesn't cause droughts?

As for your Greenland contention, do you have any idea why it's called Greenland? Because when the Norse first settled there it was "green"... as in "decidedly NOT frozen." If it all melted and drained into the Atlantic the gulf stream would continue to do what it's done for as long as it's been where it is, and has done what its done.

Europe's weather has fluctuated, getting warmer and cooler, for since there's been a Europe. So what!? Do you really think man can stop the earth from doing what it's done for untold millenia? Can we keep volcanoes from erupting? Can we keep mountian ranges from rising up or falling down (as portions of the Rockies are even now)? Can we prevent the tectonic plates from shifiting? Can we stop earthquakes, Tsunamis, Tornados? Hurricanes? Why then do you think we can keep the earth from periodically cooling and warming? Can you keep the sun from its cycles of heating and cooling? Can you prevent sunspots from forming? Can you, by any effort of your own, keep the earth upon it's current axis?

Of course not. What you can do is run about with Mr. Gore on the 'Chicken Little' express. And that's ALL you can do.

Even Gore himself admitted that for all the sacrifice we made, economically, and ecologically, we'd only be able to reduce (assuming it's even possible TO reduce) the Earth's temperature by half a degree. A one half of one degree will not keep this Earth from its natural cycle of periodically heating and cooling. Because, over the most recent 10,000 years, man has only been able to affect climate, in any meaningful (another HUGE assumption) way, for perhaps the last century. That's a mere 1%. The Earth has done what it's done for the other 99% WITHOUT any help from us.; March 26, 2007 1:08 PM
Anonymous said...: You must have forgotten the exon valdez. The effects from that one ecological disaster still haven't subsided. Fishing in that area of the Prince William Sound still hasn't returned to pre-spill levels. Even after 18 years. Some studies say that the mussel beds that feed otters and sea lions might not recover for up to 30. Man can have a definite and longterm impact upon the earth even over a short span.

It is undisputed scientific fact that carbon levels in the atmosphere are closely tied to global temperatures. Since the 1970's those carbon levels have been steadily rising. Right now carbon levels in the atmosphere are higher than in the last 6000 years.

And to take your question, what can I do? I can support clean energy. I can lobby my representatives for higher CAFE standards. I walk to the store instead of driving. I can change my light bulbs to fluorescents.

Do you know that one of the reasons american cars sell so abysmally internationally? It's because american gas mileage standards are like half of what other countries are. Chinese cars are required to get upwards of 45 miles to the gallon. European cars have even higher standards.

When you compare global carbon use americans use up such a greater percentage of resources its shameful.

You can try to deny your christian obligations to be a good steward of the earth, but the simple fact is that the world is getting warmer. There is no scientific doubt about it.; March 26, 2007 2:08 PM
Eric said...: "Learn about global warming before you try to dispute it."

What!? Like you're some kinda expert!?

How about this from people who should know...

"Throughout the ages the Thames has been locked in Winter's icy grip on countless occasions. In olden time when its bed was much wider, ice would form at the sides, and as the frost increased, would extend from bank to bank.

"In 1063 it is recorded that it was frozen over for fourteen weeks [or 98 days, Ben], and again in 1076. In 1434 it was frozen over below London Bridge, as far down as Gravesend, and the frost lasted from November 24th to February 10th.

"In 1515 the ice on the river was strong enough to bear carriages, and many passed over between Lambeth and Westminster, but unfortunately it is not said what sort of carriages - coaches did not come into use until a later date.

"In 1564 we first hear of all sorts of diversions on the frozen river, the first real Frost Fair, but very little is recorded of it. There can be little doubt that London Bridge, with its narrow arches and huge piers, contributed not a little to the frequent freezing of the river from bank to bank.

"Since the new bridge has been built such an occurrence has been less frequent [but happens still]. The floating ice was massed against these piers and heaped up on the starlings, and so formed a barrier, and the intervals between soon got frozen over." [Ephasis Added]

Perhaps you should take in a little history before you argue what would, or would not be horrible in terms of extreme weather conditions.

That's all the sparring I'm going to do with you Ben, unless you come up with something far more substantive.; March 26, 2007 2:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Sea change: why global warming could leave Britain feeling the cold
Failing ocean current raises fears of mini ice age
Global warming won't halt ocean current

Three reputable publications. And even though the headline from the ABC News Australia seems to be poo-pooing the idea of changes in the gulf stream, when you read the article you really see that they're just doubting the cause, not the conclusions. If the gulf stream weakens then europe will become drier and colder. That is fact.; March 26, 2007 2:29 PM
Eric said...: Are you seriously citing the Exxon Valdez as an example of Global Warming!!!???

"Right now carbon levels in the atmosphere are higher than in the last 6000 years."

...an assertion you cannot prove.

"I walk to the store instead of driving."

You don't live within walking distance of a store.

Furthermore, one reason American cars sell so 'abyssmally' overseas is their poorer quality and workmanship, to say nothing of their exhorbitant cost compared to more regional makes.

And there you go attacking Christianity again. Can't you argue a point without resorting to ad hominem attacks directed at my faith? Learn to do that and I and others like me just may take you more seriously.; March 26, 2007 2:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Try looking up "Little Ice Age". That's when the Thames froze. Europe may return to such a climate again if the gulf stream falters.

And you are right, I don't know everything about global climate and weather history. But I do know that there were more high temp records set across America than any year before.

I also know that untouched wilderness areas around the world are being gobbled up. I know that their are 6-billion humans on the earth. How can you look at that number SIX-BILLION and think that humanity can have no impact on a environment that never had to face such a dominant species before?; March 26, 2007 2:38 PM
Eric said...: "That is fact."

No, it's 'speculation'. Periods of extreme cold in Europe's recent [the last millenia] history could very well have been a result of Greenland sloughing off the ice to become 'green' again... It stands to reason that if Greenland were once green, it will be again. Just as it will eventually become ice-covered again, especially in light of where it sits in relation to the Arctic....

Europe didn't become covered with glaciers because of the Greenland's last thaw, and it won't happen when it thaws again. People die every year because of heat and cold. Making the extraordinary long walk from your house to the store, changing all your lightbulbs to flourescents, and lobbying Congress will not save anyone from freezing to death next winter. But if it makes you feel better.... Go for it.; March 26, 2007 2:39 PM
Anonymous said...: No. I was citing the Valdez as an example of extreme human impact upon the environment.

Here try this link it's NOAA's FAQ on Global Warming You might begin reading at the section titled "Are greenhouse gases increasing?" There's a link to a graph there of CO2 levels for the past 420,000 years, but it's small and has several other trends on the same chart.

Instead try this chart. It shows temperature and co2 levels for the past 650,000 years as figured from ice cores from Antarctica. The temp gradient stuff I can't read, but the CO2 scale is on the far right and it is pretty clear. The highest historical CO2 peak was about 300 parts per million 320,000 years ago. Current CO2 levels are above 370 parts per million.

You keep posting how you want your faith and religious beliefs to be more and more a central part of your life. I was trying to integrate this issue into those beliefs for you. Doesn't your Christianity encourage you to care for creation? How does denying man's ability to effect the environment jive with your spiritual beliefs?; March 26, 2007 3:04 PM