On Stability, and Babylon
Surely, anyone with even a mustard seed's grain of faith knows that Iraq will stabilize, and that it will happen sooner rather than later! How many times did God use other nations to chastize His chosen people? That's rhetoric for 'quite a few'. Why has the Jew been pushed out of every country they've settled in since Titus dispersed them in the 1st century? Has not God had His hand on every move against His people from that time until the Nation of Israel was reborn? Why should they ever be made to feel comfortable in a land that is not their own, just as Christians are instructed to not think of this present life as home? God has a plan. And he's in the business of seeing it through.
How many reading this who know a little something about The Revelation understands that John's description of a city situated upon seven hills refers to Rome? If that which is shrouded in metaphor is an obvious reference to Rome, why then do many assume that Babylon must mean some place else altogether? Like New York? Babylon was inhabited in Jesus' day. How many reading this knew that Babylon was still in existence in Johns' time? The empire was destroyed, but the city remained. Just as it remains today.
Babylon today still sits on the Euphrates, and it is the dream of Iraqis to see it flourish once more...
But why is the restoration of Babylon so important? Because it is from this city the Antichrist will reign over all the earth. Look at where we are now, prophetically: Israel is restored to her homeland, The desert flourishes, Jerusalem is no longer "trodden down of the Gentiles". And the generation which sees these things come to pass will, according to Jesus and scripture, see His return. Part of that scenario necessarily includes the restoration (in part or full matters not) of Babylon. It is not a stretch to say Babylon will once again be a great city of commerce, that there will be a world-wide sense of pride and accomplishment at its return.
But Iraq under Saddam has been corrupt and filled with violence, so much so, Babylon was little more than a couple of museums and gift shops... but this hardly describes the great city of Babylon, that falls utterly into ruin, so much so the entire world mourns her fall.
Is it so far-fetched that God would use a nation in this day and age to set the stage for Babylon's rising? God has used the unrighteous nations the world to chastise His people, would He not also use the United States to clear out Saddam and make it possible for Babylon to rise from the ashes once more?
Stability may not occur within the time left to George W. Bush, but it will come. And with it the rebuilding of Babylon, bringing us all nearer to His return. Which means time is short. In truth, there is nothing more that need happen, prophetically, before the rapture of the Church. Nothing. Time is VERY short. And all this political posturing over the troops; their safety, their sacrifice, is nothing more than the politics of greed and selfishness, clutched greedily to the breasts of greedy, selfish men who care little for the troops, and nothing for God's plan in all this.
Their chief concern is for power. Much like Babylon's future king.
How many reading this who know a little something about The Revelation understands that John's description of a city situated upon seven hills refers to Rome? If that which is shrouded in metaphor is an obvious reference to Rome, why then do many assume that Babylon must mean some place else altogether? Like New York? Babylon was inhabited in Jesus' day. How many reading this knew that Babylon was still in existence in Johns' time? The empire was destroyed, but the city remained. Just as it remains today.
Babylon today still sits on the Euphrates, and it is the dream of Iraqis to see it flourish once more...
...Iraqi leaders and UN officials are not giving up on [the project]. They are working assiduously to restore Babylon, home to the Hanging Gardens, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. They want to turn it into a cultural center and possibly even an Iraqi theme park.
No one is saying it is going to happen any time soon, but what makes the Pollyannaish project even conceivable is that the area around Babylon is among the safest in Iraq, a beacon of civilization once again in a land of much chaos.
Ancient Babylon, celebrated as a fount of law, writing and urban living, sits just outside the modern city of Hilla, about 100 kilometers, or 60 miles, south of Baghdad. Hilla is neither haunted by Sunni insurgents nor overwhelmed by Shiite militia and, while it is home to both Shiites and Sunnis, it has not been afflicted by the sectarian violence that has paralyzed so many other parts of Iraq.
Emad Lafta al-Bayati, Hilla's mayor, has big plans for Babylon. "I want restaurants, gift shops, long parking lots," he said. God willing, he added, maybe even a Holiday Inn.
The UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization is pumping millions of dollars into Babylon and a handful of other sites. It has even printed a snazzy brochure to give to wealthy donors. "Cultural tourism could become Iraq's second biggest industry, after oil," explained Philippe Delanghe, a United Nations official helping with the project.
But why is the restoration of Babylon so important? Because it is from this city the Antichrist will reign over all the earth. Look at where we are now, prophetically: Israel is restored to her homeland, The desert flourishes, Jerusalem is no longer "trodden down of the Gentiles". And the generation which sees these things come to pass will, according to Jesus and scripture, see His return. Part of that scenario necessarily includes the restoration (in part or full matters not) of Babylon. It is not a stretch to say Babylon will once again be a great city of commerce, that there will be a world-wide sense of pride and accomplishment at its return.
But Iraq under Saddam has been corrupt and filled with violence, so much so, Babylon was little more than a couple of museums and gift shops... but this hardly describes the great city of Babylon, that falls utterly into ruin, so much so the entire world mourns her fall.
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
--Revelation 18
Is it so far-fetched that God would use a nation in this day and age to set the stage for Babylon's rising? God has used the unrighteous nations the world to chastise His people, would He not also use the United States to clear out Saddam and make it possible for Babylon to rise from the ashes once more?
Stability may not occur within the time left to George W. Bush, but it will come. And with it the rebuilding of Babylon, bringing us all nearer to His return. Which means time is short. In truth, there is nothing more that need happen, prophetically, before the rapture of the Church. Nothing. Time is VERY short. And all this political posturing over the troops; their safety, their sacrifice, is nothing more than the politics of greed and selfishness, clutched greedily to the breasts of greedy, selfish men who care little for the troops, and nothing for God's plan in all this.
Their chief concern is for power. Much like Babylon's future king.
18 Comments:
"And all this political posturing over the troops; their safety, their sacrifice, is nothing more than the politics of greed and selfishness"
Do you honestly think that all of the millions of people here and around the world that are opposed to this invasion - to a person - think that the war is actually right and we're opposing it out of greed and selfishness?!!
Brother, that statement is a LIE. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I have no greed in my heart or my own interests at stake in opposing this war. I oppose it - and my church opposes it, and my faith community opposes it, and people around the world oppose it - for one reason: We think it's wrong.
I understand that you disagree and that's fine. I'm not saying that you support it out of greed and evil or anything. I have no doubt in my mind that you support it because it's the right thing to do.
But do you not realize that you are lying when you spread that sort of mistruth? HOW do we oppose it out of greed?!! In what way will we profit out of our opposition? That doesn't even make sense.
But aside from it not making sense, I'm telling you as a brother that it is wrong to spread that sort of lie. It's just not true, in general. I'm sure that there exists somewhere someone who opposes this war out of wrong motives, but there is no evidence at all to support the notion that the vast majority oppose it out of anything but opposition to wrong policy.
Please retract that statement.
I should have been more clear. The statement to which you object describes politicians, not Dan Trabue.
I apologize then and would gladly remove my original comment. It didn't sound that way.
Not that I know that you're correct on that statement, but at least there's evidence to support it in regards to most (not all) politicians.
No, not ALL. But certainly most. I misspoke.
Now, as to your question of greed...
Any quest for power-- political or otherwise --comes of greed, or to boil it down further, Selfishness. Which to my estimation is the stone upon which ALL sin is founded. And it is a rough stone at that.
There IS profit in greed.
LOL! Thanks for the chuckle TugBoatCapn! Who said Sarcasm can't also be Constructive? I used to be a Jedi Master at Constructive Sarcasm!
I was hoping that you would see that, and nobody else, Lash.
I will stay out of this, other than trying to throw a chuckle your way.
I have killed enough comment threads over here...
;-)
I figured since you deleted your comment you wished to keep it private, and I will respect that. Thanks again.
I am absolutely convinced that Dan is wrong and that he believes he and the other sign-toting abortionists, fags, environmentalists, islamists, French, Russians, and various other groups who hate America, are right about their shared stance on the war.
I've never thought any different.
However...I have GOOD reason to think myself right...my politics are based on my common-sense.
When one's faith is based upon a political agenda, however, one tends to be wrong about the rest of it!
"There can be no gainsaying of the fact that a great revolution is taking place in the world today. In a sense it is a triple revolution: that is a technological revolution, with the impact of automation and cybernation; then there is a revolution in weaponry, with the emergence of atomic and nuclear weapons of warfare. Then there is a human rights revolution, with the freedom explosion that is taking place all over the world. Yes, we do live in a period where changes are taking place and there is still the voice crying through the vista of time saying, 'Behold, I make all things new, former things are passed by'...
"God grant that we will be participants in this newness and this magnificent development. If we will but do it, we will bring about a new day of justice and brotherhood and peace. And that day the morning stars will sing together and the sons of God will shout for joy," - Rev Martin Luther King Jr., sermon delivered on Passion Sunday (Mar. 31, 1968) at the National Cathedral in Washington, DC
Would Dr. King agree with your assessment of the inevitability of this war? Do you think he'd claim that his god had inspired a war and killed 400,000 people to bring about an age of pain and torment and death? I want no part of your blood-thirsty, jealous god, or your attempts to use religion to absolve the mortal perpetrators of this tragedy.
"Would Dr. King agree with your assessment of the inevitability of this war?"
No, according to his wife and those who knew him best. No, according to his words, testimony and life.
You're not the only one who wants no part of that kind of god.
If Dr. King were truly a Christian he would recognize the inevitability of war. He would no doubt speak out against it, but in terms of the post and the assertions I raised regarding the chastisment of nations, he most certainly would agree. If King was truly a man of God and versed in end-time prophecies, he would agree that Iraq must soon become relatively calm. He might even see America, the ungodly nation that it is, as God's instrument of chastisment upon Saddam and the nation of Iraq-- He would undoubtedly cry out against it and grieve for this war's lost souls, but as an honest Christian he couldn't deny truth.
Like it or not Dan, scripture is replete with examples of people suffering for the sins of their leaders, but that's not to say they themselves are innocent-- There are no innocents... for ALL have sinned... Even the moments-old infant. We like to believe that such are wholly innocent, yet despite the fact they have yet to commit a sin themselves, they are nonetheless conceived in iniquity and natural-born sinners in need of God's great gift. No one comes to the father but by Jesus. No one.
You may not want any part of God, Ben, but He wants all of you and welcomes you to choose Him... As do I.
"Because it is from this city the Antichrist will reign over all the earth"
Even if you're the sort to want to treat Revelation as a fortune-telling sort of prophecy, do you not allow for the possibility of a methaphorical Babylon?
And "IF Dr King were a Christian"?
Really?
No, I do not. Babylon wasn't a metaphor in the time The Revelation of Jesus Christ was penned. It was a genuine city, and center of commerce along the Euphrates. There's no reason to believe Chapter 18 refers to any other place but Babylon. Besides which, John was commanded to write down everything he witnessed and heard, except for one bit of 'something' he heard, as described in chapter 10 (read it for yourself). Furthermore it is an Angel that announces Babylon the Great's fall. There is no metaphor here.
Yes... "If". A clearly stated proposition supposing the things Dr. King WOULD own up to-- scripturally, in terms of the prophetic word --"If" he were genuinely and honestly Christian.
It is undeniable to anyone who has read the OT that God used the ungodly nations to punish His people, and futher punished these self-same ungodly nations via the armies of yet other ungodly nations-- a prime example of this is Babylon's judgment at the hands of the Assyrians.
It is further undeniable that wars will be fought and will increase in number and ferocity the closer this world gets to the return of Christ.
Just as it is undeniable that ANY honest Christian would abhor the violence and exigencies of warring nations.
I do not say that Dr. King would not weep at the loss of life this War on Terror has wrought... Only that he would-- as a Christian --recognize the signs of the times.
You know, don't you, that Dr. King came out against the Viet Nam war for very similar reasons (and less provocation) to this invasion? It was an unjust war, paid for disproportionately by the poor and oppressed and, quite frankly, not the business Christians ought to have been in, said he.
We are to be peacemakers, King taught us. Not only ought we do so, but the only way to reach peace is BY peaceful means, he taught.
So, you're you rejecting King's Christianity, as well?
You're going to be mighty lonely there in heaven all by yourself, friend.
EL when I place your religious and political views beside those of the great leaders and moralists I just don't see much convergence.
I went and found about fifteen quotes from great people about faith, doubt, religion and oppression. In the end though what it all boils down to is that you respect people who have a limited view of both the universe and humanity.
You have a viewpoint where man's actions have to be constrained through threats of punishment. A creed where men and women must daily fight their natural urges relating to who to love, but your creed freely encourages hatred and division. You elevate people who preach hatred and intolerance. You get smug when non-Christians suffer.
You see the earth as a throw-away obstacle course to separate the "in-clique" from the rest. You have no wonder at the greatness of the universe. You place no value on the present. The sun, the trees, the rocks, other people, these are just impediments to your paradise.
When I look at your example of Christianity. I see fear of hell. I see judgment and condemnation of others. I see glee at the suffering of non-Christians. I see no joy, or kindness or love. I don't want to be like you.
Ben-- I don't want you to be like me either! There is nothing good about me! The only reason I'm going to heaven is because of Jesus, the only reason I am righteous enough is because of Jesus. And let's be clear, I am not righteous because of anything I am or have done, but because of who Christ is and what He did; His righteousness is imputed to me solely because I have chosen Him; I have accepted His free offer, as a gift, and NOT because of anything I have done, can do, or will do.
Don't be like me. Be like Christ. Make the same choice I did, accept what He did for you at Calvary and you needn't ever worry about where you'll be when your body dies. Hell is EVERYONE'S default destination. And everyone is given the choice of eternity in Reward, or eternity in Punishment.
I don't want you to be like me. You known me long enough to have seen beaucoups of imperfections. Be like Jesus.
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